Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joy B Tobin on October 8, 2012 at 12:43pm

I'm open to the idea of any belief being added, although I would like to ask...  Do you feel the lack of information is incidental or conspiratorial?  I have spoken to many individuals who have very strong feelings about the suppression of information about 9/11, but upon discussing the topic in depth I learned that many of them believe that there is a deep denial of all sorts of truths that runs through American life and especially American politics?  Is this a belief that you share as well?  If so do you think it would be appropriate to collect information about 9/11 under a more general heading of Government Conspiracy?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Khem the Is Real-ite on October 9, 2012 at 12:19am

This is an inappropriate subject for a "belief module".  The question of who perpetrated the events of 9/11 actually matters, so to present it as a matter of "belief" or "opinion" is to grossly trivialize an event that was intended to have and did have an apocalyptic impact on global consciousness. 

Open Source Religion, on the other hand, is by definition an exercise in dilettantism.  It is indelicate to speak of objective truth (especially when it is as ugly a truth as 9/11) in such a venue; a taxonomy of fantasies is much more ecumenical and therefore politically correct.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joy B Tobin on October 9, 2012 at 8:32am

Khem, is a belief the same thing as an opinion?  Does believing something true trivialize it?

Are you arguing that all beliefs are fantasies, or that all religion is fantasy?  Are you arguing that beliefs about 9/11 are not appropriate because they are not beliefs or because they are not religious?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Richard Boase on October 9, 2012 at 11:59am

Khem: I think I see your point. You're saying that belief should be primarily about matters of life and death right? But the event had an 'apocalyptic impact on global consciousness' and it's always reminded me of Jesus on the steps of the Temple, throwing the money lenders' tables over.  I think that the reading that is adopted by a global faith matters deeply; although I guess all faiths are rooted in judaism to some extent, and so it would be hard (if not impossible) to overthrow that kind of monopoly of 'received truth'. But still: people believe all kinds of things, and Israel doesn't have a monopoly on belief, though the doctrine of monotheism might insist on it.  

Joy: Good questions. I'm always surprised by the amount of truth that seems to be suppressed in the mainstream media. It's more akin to a single person lying to themselves about their motives though. "The Global Mind" seems not to be aware of it's real motives on the level of it's mass media, or rather, if it is aware it lies to it's populace deliberately; but I believe in a kind of Gaia consciousness that's guiding it I suppose, even if it is largely a deluded one at the moment. 

It might be more appropriate to collect it under government conspiracy though. It's much more obviously a case of politicians lying to everyone to keep them docile than anything else. Perhaps it is inappropriate to be part of open source belief system? I'm not sure. It would certainly make a good parable if the right angle were adopted... 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joy B Tobin on October 9, 2012 at 12:25pm

Richard, I tend to agree with your Global Mind perspective.  I think it's more a matter of people being in denial about the nature of things than an organized conspiracy.

I like to express it like this.  We all make little mistakes that we don't want to admit to.  Politicians and security administrators made lots and lots of little mistakes that added up to one huge catastrophe.  I think the part of us that is willing to look in the other direction is the same part that would feel embarrassed it a camera was suddenly turned on all of our little mistakes.  It's easier to deal with the event as a general tragedy than a tragedy due to the fault and culpability of specific individuals.  I think on some level we may all be culpable, not necessarily in a way that is directly linkable to the events which led up to 9/11, but in our tendency to view ourselves as Americans who are superior to vulnerability and instability.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Richard Boase on October 9, 2012 at 1:18pm

You know, that is very interesting, and I've often thought along the same lines: that we're all culpable to a certain extent. I guess the point about blaming the 'other' side rather than adhering to 'the official story' is in a way, just as bad. I've also often thought of it as if there were a hundred million invisible fingers pushing for that one event to happen: but the way it's dressed up and presented: is that a matter of belief/faith? Or, like Khem says: is it trivialising it to compare it to religious matters? 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joy B Tobin on October 15, 2012 at 12:55am

I wouldn't say bad or just as bad.  I think it's good to ask questions about what we know, what we want to know and what we avoid knowing.  It makes us all a little more self aware.  I don't think any of us wanted 9/11 to happen... the few individuals that did want it, wanted it for twisted reasons and ultimately they gained no measurable victory.

9/11 had a big impact on the world, a big impact on America.  It has changed the way we view ourselves, and I think that the shift in perspective was much needed.  This doesn't justify the losses, but I believe that nothing happens without some purpose.  If we as individuals can become more cognizant of ourselves and our culture as a result of this tragedy then the tragedy did not happen in vain.  I don't think it really matters if we consider it a matter of belief or not.  I don't think that discussing 9/11 in any forum can be considered a trivialization.  We need to make sense of the real things that happen, especially the bad things... faith is one tool we use to do that.  Whether it's asking where God was when this happened or asking where our government was... if the question matters to you, you should be allowed to ask it.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion