Taking this one slight step further....if I am wrong (about Jesus being the ONLY way to God), then neither of us suffers from my error. If I am correct, then those who think otherwise, and believe that many paths lead to God, will sorely be surprised when their life ends on earth.
The key is understanding who Jesus really is.
Jesus is NOT a man and he has not been a man since that day on calvary, if one chooses to perceive of the past history as the true perception of reality.
In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god and the word became flesh and dwelt among men... then the word said I must go or the father cannot send the comforter, the holy SPIRIT who is with you now but shall be in you.
Jesus the Spirit of Truth and Righteousness, aka God, the word, the TRUTH the WAY is not just the only way to God, he is God, not when he was a man. God is a SPIRIT not a man. Man is just a physical perception of reality. We are not men when we are in the spirit, we are sons of God, like our brother Jesus who gave up his godhood to become a son of god like us. Jesus our brother kind and good, was humbly born in a stable of wood.
But was resurrected just as all of us can be resurrected if we obey the Spirit of Truth and Righteousness.... now I do not care if a person calls themselves an atheist, a satanist a christian a buddhist a Muslim a place your label here, there are two types of people, sheep and goats, sheep follow the spirit of truth and righteousness, and goats do not. If you want to be a part of the spirit of truth and righteousness you need to obey that spirit and resist the fear and pride that seperates you from that GOD of truth and righteousness.
do not ask me what truth and righteousness is. The people who tried to cast demons out in the name of the Jesus that Paul preached were beaten severely as the demons said. We know Jesus and we know Paul, but who are you?
Our relationship with truth and righteousness has absolutely nothing to do with religion,, it has everything to do with our personal relationship with Truth and Righteousness no matter what you choose to call, it or if you choose to just call it morality and integrity ... but you better be Absolutely obedient to it, because on the day of judgement what ever excuses you have used to deny that truth, or justify not obeying it, will not work.
Oh sinner man where you gonna run to all on that day.
I am okay with this video up to a point. He starts by saying all Gods are equal, but in Orwellian fashion he ends up with "but pigs are more equal than all the other animals" and that God will come back, in India or in his pigsty spa.
I do not use the word pig to denigrate him, I only use it because it is the animal used in the book "Animal Farm" to denote this selfish representation of how everyone thinks god is on their side and they are the special and chosen people. At that point I put up my fingers in a W and say..... Whatever.... just another religion.
James, are you interceding again . . . . . .
Anyway - doug, I think that the only way for you to God is through Jesus. I think that is why you are a Christian and situated in the Christian Branch of the Kalpa Tree.
I don't feel the the Christian Branch is where I belong at this point in time.
The Kalpa Tree Model establishes God as The Seed. . .
I don't think so. This IS a PUBLIC forum I believe and open to comments on any message from any member. At least I think that is how these things work.
Kalpa Tree? You speak as if there really is such a thing as a kalpa tree and that it is binding on everyone. Sorry if I don;t climb up into your tree on your command.
If you feel like you do not belong with christ, I am quite sure Jesus respects that and would never intrude in your life unwanted. However He is always there when you are ready to accept the TRUTH.
God as the seed !?!?!?!?
Now God the CREATOR has become a seed?
If anything many people believe God CREATED the seed.
We are the seeds and some will grow to be strong plants , others not so much.
Well according to some people perception and expression of it anyway.
James, once again you misdirect the truth. You say you are OK with this video but Dadi Janki ( - more ) ends up with, "but pigs are more equal than all the other animals" . . .etc. So let's check how your self serving opinion stacks up against what was actually said in the video and then discuss what was really said.
- - - - -
Head of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University
ON THE SUBJECT OF GOD:
When we say God, everyone’s intellect goes upwards.
God, Allah, Ishwar are the same. The Father of all souls is One.
The Remover of Sorrow and Bestower of Peace for all is One.
The Ocean of Knowledge, the Ocean of Love, the Ocean of Peace,
The Ocean of Bliss, the Purifier is One God.
He cannot be seen with these eyes.
He cannot be recognized with a gross intellect
In order to see and know Him, my inner eye opens.
Let my inner eye become pure and divine,
And then I can know Him.
It is essential to see Him and Know Him.
Then I will have that recognition.
Who is He? What is he Like? What does He do?
What does He inspire?
I too was looking for God.
Some said: God Doesn’t exist. Some say: I am God.
Some say: God exists but they don’t know Him.
What is His name, form, time, duty?
That time has now come.
It is the end of the iron age. The golden age is coming.
This play on the world stage from the golden age to the iron age is now coming to an end.
These are now the final moments.
All souls have come down from above.
Defamation of religion, sin and corruption have increased so much
that now there is no name or trace of truth.
In the field of religion and politics, it is as though they are bankrupt of peace
At such a time, our beloved Supreme Father, reveals himself through Brahma Baba,
And gives us souls our own introduction.
He says you are souls and you have now completed the part
of going around the cycle of time.
He says: O souls, God, the Supreme Father, the Purifier, the Ocean of Knowledge,
the Ocean of Peace, the Ocean of Love has come to purify you and show you the way home.
God, the Father says: Children, I always reside in the supreme abode.
Previously, we had all forgotten who our Father was,
where we had come from and where we have to return to.
Now, our beloved God Father has come to our Bharat, India.
We call Him Bhagwan, Ishwar, Prabhu.
Ishwar – your ways and means are unique.
Bhagwan – you are the Bestower of Fortune.
Prabhu – your activities are divine and supreme.
By knowing Him you experience Him.
To dispel darkness and to bring light is his duty.
When the Satguru (True Teacher) gives the anointment of knowledge,
the darkness of ignorance is dispelled.
God Opened our third eye of knowledge, gave us the knowledge of the three aspects of time, He made us into master of the three worlds.
Now, understand that in the corporeal world, the world is becoming
free from sorrow and we are going to the world of peace,
and then we will come into the world of happiness.
For this, stay in remembrance. Secondly, accumulate your account of elevated actions.
He says: Children, you will claim your inheritance of the kingdom of heaven from me your Father, will you not?
- - - - - -
So James, what would you honestly like to say about what you were OK with in the video and at what point you felt it necessary to use a "pig" metaphor.
INTERCEDE: Synonyms - mediate - intervene - interpose.
James, I speak of the Kalpa Tree like someone might talk of the Periodic Table of Elements. Does the Periodic Table really exist or is it simply a way to portray reality? Does the Kalpa Tree really exist? Does the Trinity really exist? No reality is like the Kalpa Tree or the Periodic Table or like Jesus is God. Once we understand this, we are able to see more.
You ask about the idea of God as Seed or in seed-form. James a tree (Kalpa or otherwise) is derived from a seed. Imagine a huge tree from a little seed. Take the seed from which the tree is derived. Look at it. Open it. How did that huge tree get packed into that tiny little seed? God too is infinitesimal. Anyway, why don't you churn on the Kalpa Tree and the Seed from which it is derived and let me know if you have any specific questions.
You say many people believe God CREATED the seed. Here's what I know for sure, the seed creates the tree and the tree creates the seed.
That is just my point. There only is one branch that counts, to put it in those terms. And that branch is through having a personal relationship with truth & righteousness (aka Jesus, the embodiment of truth...he had the ephod in him...lights & perfection), as James has put it.
I have often like referring to Hosea 4.6...especially the end of that verse which says..."...seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children". Jesus represented the law of God, and because people have chosen to forget him or to minimize Jesus, God will also forget about them...when the time counts! Which is when we are to be judged by God.
I should like to know then, for any sins you have ever committed, how then have you taken care of that "sin debt"? No one can stand before an holy God in sin, and so one's sins must be taken care of before we can approach God. How then does one manage that? How do you, Kernel, manage that for yourself? (if I may ask the question in this form)
Previously, we had all forgotten who our Father was,
where we had come from and where we have to return to.
I would like to suggest (and emphasize) that we have forgotten because we have all sinned. In order to return, we need THE way to return, and Jesus is that way. If we chose to say that that way is not for me or for some other person, then it is our loss (or that person's loss)...and error.
There is only one branch that counts? That's what many people on the Christian branch believe. Many people on the other branches also believe, just like Christians, that their branch is the only one that counts. There are a lot of religious cheerleaders who think God favours one branch or tribe over another.
doug - you believe . . . because people have chosen to forget him or to minimize Jesus, God will also forget about them...when the time counts! Which is when we are to be judged by God. Because, to you, Jesus represents God, it would be difficult to rebut your claim. However, I understand that, at the end, God comes to instruct us on how to claim our inheritance by understanding how to prepare for the final judgment you speak of. This judgement will not favour one tribe over another. We are all judged on merit. God comes to explain this.
How then have I taken care of that "sin debt", you ask. What is sin? Sin is recorded on the soul regardless of type or amplitude. We either change our ways or the sin recurs and becomes habitual. The stripping away of old habits requires, knowledge, will and effort. Where this is not enough, may turn to the Supreme. Actually taking care of that debt is a subtle topic. I understand that the removal of sin does not take place through the accumulation of good deeds. Engaging in sinful action is not counterbalanced by rightful action. Rightful action is the default. We should have this discussion some time.
You are correct. We have forgotten God because we have sin. Sin is the consequence of awareness of the self as physical body. As we move into soul-consciousness, I am a metaphysical soul, we begin to see others differently and our behavior changes accordingly. There is much mankind was not ready to understand 2000 years ago.
I have no problem with his opening being a gerneral assessment of the property or characteristiucs of God that respectfully equate every ones perception of God as equal to his own. It is when he starts trying to sell his own brand of religion to pull people into his own money pit to manipulate them, that I tune out. I do not believe in religion, I have been accused of prosyletizing and yet I call the christian religion , the anti christ as much as I call Dada's religion the antichrist. To me all religion is the anti-christ because they set up God as their own personal agent and suggest God for example is coming back in their country or in them as god in carnate or in their personally perceived prophet. SO for a couple minutes Dada says things most people believe about "their" god, and then shifts into second gear as he gives the "true" name of God to us and the true religion in India where he resides where God has chosen to come back. He could have kept it generic, but then how could he suck in more converts such as yourself to spread his words. I find you one of the greatest proselytizers I have ever heard, slick like your Dada in pretending to see all Gods as equal, and then sliding into second gear with your BKW pitch.
I promote no religious sect\cult the way you do. Not catholics or protestants or baptists. I promote CONCEPTS .. LOVE the spirit of TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS above all which is pure logic if you ever want to know the "truth" and LOVE OTHERS as YOURSELF if you desire to bring that truth into the physical arena and express it. If you have a problem with those to concepts, feel free to present your rebuttal, otherwise I don't think you have anything to add that is any more "serious" than what I have to add.
But who is Jesus? Consider the concept deeply. Jesus as you say represents the true law of god that we as humans twist and distort because we refuse to accept the simplicity of the law... for example, thou shalt not kill.. all of a sudden someone wants to say, that means thou shalt not murder .. there are good and godly reasons why we should kill people that are not murder, self defence (oh yeah you mean like the way those iraqi and palistinian women were killed in self defence after they attacked the WTC and became suicide bombers in Israel) Not to get political but how exactly was the law of god that thou shall not kill, not compromised by those who murdered innocent women and children in the name of their god?...oh yeah... collateral damage is not included in the thou shalt not kill commandment... special dispensation I suppose.
You see and the Jesus came and said , "How can you break the law of thou shalt not kill if you love truth and righteousness above all and id you love your neighbor as yourself.
Naww that is too simple, it does not allow wiggle waggle room to kill people that interfere or as Kernel might put it, intercede with what we are trying to accomplish.
At least those religions don't think they are the master of THE WHOLE TREE!