Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Roman Kozlowski on February 10, 2010 at 4:14pm

i+1=i
i-1=i
i+i=i
i-i=i
googleplex or zero?
are we something or nothing?
Is i an illusion?
Should it be banned from math?
In math, decimal numbers act differently to counting numbers, establishing that even within the i, some i's are bigger than others.

Interestingly, when brought down to a more basic human functioning everyday level...
Religionists (in general) who believe in the infinity of God, tend towards acting out their beliefs with regard to the finite.
Scientists (in general) who study and try to measure the observable finite, tend towards the infinite.

With i, all is possible in time, even multiuniverses and doppelgangers. And t is only relative anyway.

Could 'Graham's Number' be an aspect of God?

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 10, 2010 at 4:19pm

i-i=i

This is foundational to my own understanding of the Trinity. I am aware that you disagree with the doctrine, and respect your right to the opinion, but this is my math behind it.

Roman Kozlowski said:

i+1=i
i-1=i
i+i=i
i-i=i
googleplex or zero?
are we something or nothing?
Is i an illusion?
Should it be banned from math?
In math, decimal numbers act differently to counting numbers, establishing that even within the i, some i's are bigger than others.

Interestingly, when brought down to a more basic human functioning everyday level...
Religeionists (in general) who believe in the infinity of God, tend towards acting out their beliefs with regard to the finite.
Scientists (in general) who study and try measure the observable finite, tend towards the infinite.

With i, all is possible in time, even multiuniverses and doppelgangers. And t is only relative anyway.

Could 'Graham's Number' be an aspect of God?

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Permalink Reply by Roman Kozlowski on February 10, 2010 at 4:53pm

Intersting doone. So what you're proposing is that time itself is finite, as in someone simply counting 1,2,3,4, (and so on forever)....., though may not be concluded in a person's lifetime, would somehow nullify the concept of time itself? This is a relative stance.

Intersting too JH, that you see i-i=i as something akin to describing the Trinity doctrine. Yet doone makes a point that with some math ideas, "When you subtract infinity from infinity, something else happens entirely: the two concepts stack up with each other. Thus, [1/0 - 1/0] gives you 0/0 as the denominators need not change, obviously. Now I'm not sure if he's actually saying that this means that i-i=0, therfore no infinity? Perhaps doone can explain that a little more.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 10, 2010 at 6:02pm

Infinity to me means unlimited. Any amount subtracted from unlimited supply would put an unlimited amount in two piles. Its logic, which is the fundamental element of math.

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Permalink Reply by Jim G on February 11, 2010 at 12:03am

God = Indefinable IMHG (in my humble guess)

Infinity is mathematically indefinable, right? There's a definition for it, but you can't use it, you can only approach it? So logic might say that infinity is a characteristic of God? (If there is a God, that is.)

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Permalink Reply by Roman Kozlowski on February 13, 2010 at 2:27pm

JF said "Any amount subtracted from unlimited supply would put an unlimited amount in two piles".

I put to you the impossibility of such, as in fact, the unnumbered pile would remain as still one unnumbered pile.

By this, you show a tendency towards making logic out of illogic.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 13, 2010 at 4:25pm

Roman,

Unnumbered could easily be finite or infinite. We don't know because we haven't counted it. By your own terms, it is unnumbered.

By this you show a tendency to be biased, judgmental, and critical without supporting facts.

Roman Kozlowski said:

JF said "Any amount subtracted from unlimited supply would put an unlimited amount in two piles".
I put to you the impossibility of such, as in fact, the unnumbered pile would remain as still one unnumbered pile.
By this, you show a tendency towards making logic out of illogic.

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Permalink Reply by Roman Kozlowski on February 14, 2010 at 12:06am

JF, a thought I shared with DT from my discussion 'Is consciousness another kind of matter' might be a more appropriate response to you here.

DT, you're one of the few here that entices me from out of my comfort zone, and I like that. I need a feezing cold shower now and then just to wake me back to my senses. I thank you for that. Although your speech is often disjointed, I do at times get a sense of something like real transcendent empathic understanding. Then again, I may be overestimating you, and you may be just another clown knocking on my inner door.

Like Cantor, I find beauty in the diagonal argument. And like him have found myself at the doors of 'change' (or 'acceptance') to give into it, a number of times, though only actually went in to take a peek the once in my life, and was totally absorbed to the point I didn't want to return to this so called 'real' world for about three days. I found it the most blissful release --- put a nappy on me, feed me, I dribble, what care I in the corner, when the entire universe of knowledge is unfolding before me. It's an experience I cherrish to this day.

Real numbers are not countable. And to accept infinity questions the entire process of mathematics. I know this. But, for the very fact I know this, is why I keep harking back to breaking down the doors of perception in order to get a glimpse of what I experienced in the past, where I became one with everything for the longest period of time. Those beautiful theta flash moments, few and brief though they are now in life, I guess are what keep me going.

I've been there, stood at the edge of infinity and tasted it, and it tasted good.

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Permalink Reply by Roman Kozlowski on February 19, 2010 at 12:46pm

DT, I love your disclosure regarding the impulsive mindset of JH when you write to him saying "I'm going to add one thought for jeff. In your experience and I ask you to think about this for a bit before replying". Spot on!

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 19, 2010 at 4:40pm

First.. To all concerned....

Sometimes my response is quicker then others, and sometimes it takes a day or two. I do my best to think before I type, and have on more then one occasion gone back. admitted, and or corrected a position that developed with further reflection.

DT,

I was both of the Christians you describe before. That is not the Christian I am today. That dross was burnt away in the crucible of addiction and recovery.

Here is a quote from my "Myspace Profile" from years ago. It still holds true.

"So far, by God's grace relapse has not been part of my program. During my outpatient recovery program I found God had been waiting patiently for me the quinisential prodigal son. I tossed all the years of Sit and Soak Christianity and opted for a very stripped down model. I still have a long way to go, but God is bringing me closer and closer to Him."

I explained to my son just two days ago.

"My life with God is like the ripples after a rock hits the water. Where the rock went into the water is how God has physically and tangibly impacted my life. The next ring is study of the physical reality of Jesus' existance, His teachings, His atonement, and His resurrection as validation of both His teachings, and God's satisfaction with the work of Atonement and of the New Covenant. The next ring is the full Bible, the richness of its teachings, and the thread of Christ thoughout it."

My belief system is first now based on the touch of God on my life. I am an "God is my minute by minute life support system" Christian. I am daily being transformed into a more Godly person, usually seeing the most results quite by accident when I look back over the last days or weeks.

I am awestruck by the fact that God took on flesh, and dwelt with His own. God set the record straight on who He was and how He saw things. God teaches that He hates workers of iniquity, but demonstrates his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. The cross is the perfect love of God bringing it all to the table to have a relationship with us. How much He loves us. The Resurrection is Triumph and Validation. The work that was pronounced "FINISHED", was found acceptable by the Father. The cross is the jumping off point. It is the point of Salvation, but Sanctification is just as important, if not more. Salvation reestablishes the relationship between God and humanity, but Santification brings about a life that is glorifying to God. By Salvation we are born of the Spirit. By Sanctification, we mature in our faith. Sanctification is where we are molded by God into more of His likeness. It is the difference between pre-Pentecost Peter, who denied Christ, and then stayed inside for 50 Days after seeing Him risen, and Peter who post-Pentecost went out and preached converting over 2000.

My release from the compulsion and torment of alcoholism. The story of my Grandmother's Bible I blogged so long ago... Many tangible answers to prayer, in ways that were to way out to be coincedence, and often witnessed by my family... these are touchstones of my faith. The archeology, and other historical input builds on that.

The core is the reality of Jesus Christ, Living Lord and Risen Savior.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 19, 2010 at 7:04pm

Some point to the cross as a bridge between Up and Down, and side to side. Up and down bridging between God and us, side to side to bring us together in Christ.

I agree with you to in large part. Your right, we all die. (Well almost... re: Enoch, Elijah, Melchizidek etc...)

People like to dismiss talk of hell as intolerant. Ironic, but most of them will say that Jesus was a good or great man and teacher. The irony is because Jesus taught more on eternal damnation then any other source in the Bible.

I didn't write it, and all I can do is express a profound appreciation for God's grace because I screwed up so bad most of my life. Now I try to help as many as I can with addiction issues to avoid the remorse for what I could/ should / and didn't do, and the sheer weight of loss of 20 some odd years to a fckng bottle.

I'll never drink again, with God's blessing, because I never want to drive drunk again. I look back on time with my kids in the car and it turns my stomach. I tore up a 14 year marraige. I want my presence to my family and children to be one of assurance, trust, and strong foundation. Not explosive, random, and chaotic. With all the pressure on me right now it would be soooo easy to check out, but that's not available to me... not anymore. I posted this morning, long before reading your post this morning, on my facebook status... "There is no situation that can't be made worse by pouring alcohol on top of it..."

Yet amidst all this, I have a center that is very real. I can sense it under my "feet". The "Be still and know that I am God". The "Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." It is incredible. It is Holy. It is real, and to give it a more zenish spin. (Sid heard me say this when I first came to the site so long ago)

"The Spirit of the Rock says... I will not be moved" (Miyamoto Musashi.. Book of 5 Rings)

Johnny Cash got it too.... :-)


This isn't a statement of doctrine, I'm refining that all the time. Its about trust against the tempests that rage at us, and the foundation on which we can stand true. I'm not a fearless man, but I know who's on my side. Then again a man who knows nothing of fear knows nothing of courage.

The Cross of Christ from the before picture is the Throne of Christ in the after. The truth permeates my core and moves me through this reality, a citizen of another Kingdom, sojourning here for a time. I don't claim to know more then the smallest part, but it is "old school" like gravity, or other rules of physics.

"God Is"

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 19, 2010 at 7:32pm

You read what you read... I'll live what I live. There is a modest difference.

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