Is God simply an idea, or is he a real and sentient being?

This came up in another discussion I was having and I thought it's an interesting split in a lot of people's beliefs.

The way I see this, you can respond in one of three ways...

1. There is no God, plain and simple.
This is a rather straightforward response for those who don't fall into the two following responses.

2. God is a being.
This implies that there is a single God which is actually a sentient being (perhaps not of the kind we are accustomed to) living as a part of or separate from our universe. The most important part of this is the fact that this God as a being has a will of its own. Also, this type of God is likely (but perhaps not, depending on the individuals beliefs) the creator of the universe. Another important distinction between the two.

3. God is an idea. 
This means that God is a creation of sentient beings. He is simply an idea which represents everything we find to be good. This God does NOT have a will of it's own as it is created, and influenced by the sentient beings which created it. Also, this God cannot be the creator of the universe since it was the universe (or more specifically the sentient beings which are a part of it) that created this God.

Are there any other possible responses to this question I overlooked? Responses should be as simple as possible, and have the ability to cover a broad scope of individuals.

Tags: existence, god, idea, real

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4. One cannot know God without knowing the self/soul.  One can only know God by connecting the soul (mind) with the Mind of God. 

You are not a physical being, you are metaphysical point of conscient energy.  If you turn God into a logical construct you will eventually conclude that He/She does not exist. If God is something to experience - commune with - you might come to another conclusion. . . More.

inside you is a sleeping, dormant "atrophied", unconscious, potential to experience your “true” and only SELF...your true and only SOUL,( which Kernel still imagines he already has somehow...given to him like free Whoppers from the BK franchise he touts endlessly and very predictably as a recording on his cell phone answering machine mind, that he mistakenly thinks is a soul...a machined voice inside his skull and his cave of illusions),  so you have company Blade.  

“To thy self be true”

The soul is a totality of moments of “Self” awareness” and can only be "real" in the present moment...fact

             Rodney Collin a student of the Gurdjieff “Work”

(Kernal...Blade...otherwise it is sound asleep and not available to the monkey mind)(Honest)

 http://youtu.be/69F7GhASOdM   puts you into that cave that you and Kernal and most of humanity are already chained inside of...even Sidion for gosh sakes

Blade,  here is the Truth SErum in some detail...

http://www.opensourcereligion.net/forum/topics/discovering-the-true...

 (BUT that miniscule almost undetectable "lightness" of your being,  of your “True Self”, aka your soul,  has a very very very very brief shelf life in this so called "reality" you are shrink wrapped and trapped within ..(trapped since you are entirely co dependent on your senses...all five of them, swift blade.)  (Same goes for you Kernel...but quadruple in your case Kernal, because I have been sending regular  “trance busting” transmissions of the TRUTH serum prescribed for you alone, for almost a year now, because you sleep so soundly, as you blithely, dreamily, and Oh so repetitiously, (like a Bhrana Shave road sign on highway 69),  parrot the fiendish sales pitches from your BK franchise, not unlike a veteran used car salesman, talking in your sleep, and trapped, entranced,  chained, but  grinning with the Happy Face they gave to all the crowd of BKers, mesmerized at the last convention of the DaddyMommy Rama P Jama hootenanny,all those that could muster up the fees and airplane tickets needed to join each other (dragging their chains clanging banging and dangling  stil, l of course), to  the convention and celebration of the Zombie  sitting, third eye focussing, brain crammed with tall tales and Whoppers, nonsense believing,  EN MASSE, celebrating,, seances, while they  grunt in perfect unison and  harmony, sweet platitudes of “Oh Happy Happy we all have a soul”...”Oh Happy Happy we are all on a roll”....”Om Mane Padme BOING”), inside your skull cave, filled with preconceived bits and bytes of the endless whoppers you consume "religiously".

Where was I?  Oh yes,  back to Blade to give First Aid

Blade, because your senses are all bundled together and hot wired by our common creator, His Supreme Majesty,  in a somewhat miraculous fashion, (not to be ignored as a marvelous invention by His Supreme Holiness, The Most Holy Sun behind our sun, Absolute,), all the senses deemed necessary and somewhat reliable, (falling short in comparison with extrasensory appendages and more subtle electro magnetic centers commonly called chakras where vortexes of  colored, energies,  whirl as vortices, silently but in most cases very pale in radiance, in all seven colours of the rainbow),  for survival of the species so as to serve more efficiently sa food for the moon as a cadre of lunatics,    (not evolution,  that is a far more rigorous enterprise),  data, sucked up and channelled swiftly, (no pun intended Sir Blade), like,  (grossly similar),  the speed of light itself, even though that kind of physical or mundane light is rather dense in comparison with His Highest and Utmost Holy Light, unbearable to you and almost unbearable to me as well), all the five , plain brown wrapper senses designed by Our Common Creator, the most noticeable bits and bytes of information, mostly from your outside world (of more illusions and close to being fictions),  that ends up clinging to the inner walls of your skull...the walls of your cave...your inner world  of what you esteem as “reality”, and that you have been trained and  even educated in many cases in Universities of what has been called “{higher” learning...God forbid, that you Blade  "assume "is reality.  SUCH A TINY WORLD INDEED SINCE YOU ARE IMAGINING THQT THIS 3D WORLD IS ALL THERE IS...BUT GOD IS INHABITING A MUCH higher (metaphysical Blade, hyper-dimensional "other”,  world even   beyond Satan's invisible world of spirits, demons, and poltergeists...but lets not complicate your sensory You Tubeerosity form of reality just yet 

http://www.esotericonline.net/video/gurdjieff-teacher-of-radical-tr...



I tend to think of God as falling within the third category, as an idea.  I often refer to God as a definition.  We can choose to label something that exists as God.  My favorite definition is St. Anselm's with a slight modification, God is that than which nothing greater can exist.  St. Anselm actually used the word conceived rather than exists.  But this leads to complete subjectivism since some some people's ability to conceive is greater than others, given the finitude of mind no individual may be able to conceive of God in his fullness, and, of course, most people probably think of their conceptions as being greater than anyone else's conception.  Defining God as existant, on the other hand, both limits him to the indisputably real, but also allows him to be greater than any one mind can conceive.  This is satisfying to me.

Now, we must define what constitutes existence.  Spinoza refers to modes.  So, there is the physical world.  But are also other modes of existence.  For instance emotions/spiritual impulses, reason/logic/math, interpersonal/sociological forces, each of which often appears to have an existance independent of the individual consciousness.  The problem with this, and with the concept of God as an idea is that it turns God into an inanimate object with no will.

I believe in an emergent God, a hylozoic God.  All of these modes are built of connected experiences.  This network of experiences, when it become large enough and complex enough, takes on a life-force of it's own with it's own will and sense of consciousness.  It then becomes self-directed with an independent will of it's own.  And so, God's will exists independently of the human will.  I don't want this to so to metaphysical.  So, an example would be evolution.  Each individual has a will to live.  Each species has a will to propagate itself.  Animate life has a will to build complexity into new forms of life.  Institutions and civilizations have independent wills that often defies the will of any one individual in that society.  Gravity is the will of matter.  Eric Berne's "games" are interpersonal wills that seek to propagate themselves through individual neurosis from which all of the participants in the game often would like to be free (i.e. the five handed game of alcoholism).  All of these modes together make up their own ultimate network that is God.

And so, I think of God as a self-created idea with an independent will.  Of course, since it's my definition, I realize that God does not exist any more than a word does.

I think I've kind of broken the rules of this thread.  I haven't introduced a single simple category (and can't think of another category).  In fact, I've blurred all of the categories.  But I think inside of there, there is something systematic (some kind of if then statements might be able to unravel it).  It's important to know, however, that my idea of God is relatively specific and yet is not going to fall neatly into any one of those three categories listed.  If you are creating a set of questions, someone should probably be able to respond on a scale of one to ten for several items within each of the categories you've listed.

[Topic moved to Open Source Religion forum]

Belief Modules must be stated as a belief rather than a question. Sorry. :P

Good post Blade, I think each of those would make good Belief Modules in themselves.

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