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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 16, 2010 at 11:19pm

Nothing new Kernal,

Romans 1:

18From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth. 19They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them. 20God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse. 21They know about God, but they don't honor him or even thank him. Their thoughts are useless, and their stupid minds are in the dark. 22They claim to be wise, but they are fools. 23They don't worship the glorious and eternal God. Instead, they worship idols that are made to look like humans who cannot live forever, and like birds, animals, and reptiles.
24So God let these people go their own way. They did what they wanted to do, and their filthy thoughts made them do shameful things with their bodies. 25They gave up the truth about God for a lie, and they worshiped God's creation instead of God, who will be praised forever. Amen.

Science tries to write God out of the equation, and find other aspects to "Give Glory" to. (Selection, Humanism, etc...) Same old same old..

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Permalink Reply by Jim G on February 17, 2010 at 10:31am

From Wikipedia:

"Stephen Jay Gould proposed an approach dividing the world of philosophy into what he called "non-overlapping magisteria" (NOMA). In this view, questions of the supernatural, such as those relating to the existence and nature of God, are non-empirical and are the proper domain of theology. The methods of science should then be used to answer any empirical question about the natural world, and theology should be used to answer questions about ultimate meaning and moral value. In this view, the perceived lack of any empirical footprint from the magisterium of the supernatural onto natural events makes science the sole player in the natural world.

Carl Sagan argued that the doctrine of a Creator of the Universe was difficult to prove or disprove and that the only conceivable scientific discovery that could challenge it would be an infinitely old universe."

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I think Sagan meant "infinitely old Cosmos"?

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So by "redefining" God I think we are not only reinventing the wheel, but that the wheel keeps spinning while we get nowhere, as I think God is indefinable.

I think we can be "one with the universe", but there is no proof that the Universe = God. Being one with the universe of course can be accomplished through meditative states. I think that is good enough of a place to arrive at "spiritually", combined with following an ethics that is generally agreed upon of course.

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Permalink Reply by Jim G on February 17, 2010 at 11:05am

I think I do believe that God = Mind though. It makes sense -- a super consciousness. So I should not be so quick to reject Religious Science as a religion. I prefer meditation than singing, and I like the way Buddhism kind of ignores the topic of God, while getting one in touch with It probably, though, during meditation. I think perfection is a characteristic of such a super Mind, and that if we follow the principle of perfection, we will likewise do well spiritually and materially in life. I think all religions, if they are good ones, develop a person's perfection. But I do think we need to arrive at a place where we realize all paths, if they develop a persons' perfection, are valid and not wrong. That is what I don't like about organized religion, and I like when Buddhist leaders such as the Dalai Lama say the same thing. We spend all our activity in life pursuing different kinds of perfection. Even if it is perfect relaxation, we will try to pursue perfection. Honeymoon's in Hawaii. Cut flowers. Paintings on the wall. Vacations in nature. Oogling young women at an stripper joint. Evolution is perfection. The fact that our planet hasn't been slammed disastrously by a large rock from space since the dinosaur age is perfection. Our planet itself is perfection -- located just the right distance from the sun. We are messing up the perfection of our planet with global warming, which has it's naysayers / deniers. It is hard to comprehend how such a super Mind or super Consciousness got started, but it isn't really our job to know how it got started -- it doesn't really make any difference. Just believing that It is makes a difference, as then we know how to act -- by following It's example. Striving for perfection. I think coming back for additional lives / chances makes sense as then we have additional chances to reach spiritual perfection prior to arriving at Heaven / Nirvana, whatever that is. Perhaps not, but perhaps so. There is no proving Heaven either. Perhaps people who are successful with the Law of Attraction, and end up with the Ferrari's they visualized, prove a super Consciousness / God / super Mind. And the same for group prayer or individual prayer that works. I guess I'm OK with Religious Science, I just wish they didn't call It God, because the word God has a loaded interpretation for all of us. Why don't they just call it Mind?

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 17, 2010 at 4:38pm

Been spending time with our friend Bill W. db? Good stuff.

db said:

Religion is already science.

Christ Jesus summarized all religious teaching this way, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God [Spirit] with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matt. 22:37-40).

By obeying these two great commandments, one’s consciousness is transformed from materialism to genuine spirituality. Limitations and ignorance are gradually replaced by the understanding of life in and of Spirit. This causes one to experience creation as God made it: purely spiritual and harmonious, like God Himself. That change of thought results in all manner of healing—whether it be of one’s body, one’s relationships, or one’s economic condition. And the ripple effects of spiritual healing in one’s life progressively reach the challenges that society itself faces. The consistent and reliable demonstration of all-harmonious cause and effect, enabled by obeying the two great commandments, constitutes unmistakable evidence in the proving ground of daily life. And this is what makes religion scientific.

db

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 17, 2010 at 7:44pm

I don't think it would be that obvious unless someone had spent a bit of time with Bill & Co. themselves.

Somebody probably has pointed it out, but there is a way to break down the "HOW" in "How it Works"

Honesty - Openess - Willingness

All three take considerable courage. To desist from rationalization and engage in fearless examination of our motives and underlying purposes. To pursue honesty in all our affairs, trusting our HP to make it come out right instead of our own manipulations.

To be open to the truth, to own our own, and to embrace paths and purposes that haven't appealed to us before.

To have the courage to let go of the childish fists full of "me" and willing to allow God as we understand Him to remove our shortcomings, many of which we till now have considered our security net.

Take it Easy!

Jeff

db said:

The way it has evolved really keeps my interest... but I have to stop the cross-talk.... as you can see below...

db

db said:

It's that obvious !! wow.... ~wink
I keep coming back ! db
Jeff H said:

Been spending time with our friend Bill W. db? Good stuff.
db said:

Religion is already science.

Christ Jesus summarized all religious teaching this way, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God [Spirit] with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matt. 22:37-40). By obeying these two great commandments, one’s consciousness is transformed from materialism to genuine spirituality. Limitations and ignorance are gradually replaced by the understanding of life in and of Spirit. This causes one to experience creation as God made it: purely spiritual and harmonious, like God Himself. That change of thought results in all manner of healing—whether it be of one’s body, one’s relationships, or one’s economic condition. And the ripple effects of spiritual healing in one’s life progressively reach the challenges that society itself faces. The consistent and reliable demonstration of all-harmonious cause and effect, enabled by obeying the two great commandments, constitutes unmistakable evidence in the proving ground of daily life. And this is what makes religion scientific. db

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 18, 2010 at 11:35am

I did that db. Lost the mustache as well. I wanted to look in the mirror every morning and remember I wanted to be someone different. Kept it for a year I think, now I just keep it close. Still no mustache... :-{|)

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on February 18, 2010 at 6:39pm

Thanks for NOMA. Trying to reconcile Science and Religion (Fact and Belief) is tricky.
As far as defining God, I never thought we were trying to define God but rather our perception of God. God is by definition, at least for me an absolute unchanging reality. Was it Roman that once said, we cannot change reality only our perception of it?

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on February 21, 2010 at 1:51pm

Jeff, Is it a surprise that science makes no attempt to write God into the equation. Each "religion" has a fixed, immutable equation. There is nothing in the religious equation to adjust or question. Perhaps people are increasingly attracted to science because it asks questions and actively seeks new answers all the time. It changes, adapts and adjusts.

What do you mean by "Same old same old"? What are you trying to say?

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on February 21, 2010 at 1:57pm

doone, do you think it is possible for religious institutions to experiment and self-correct in a way that people can better ;earn, change and compare ideas like the Faylasufs/Philosophers of old?

http://www.redefinegod.com/profiles/blogs/god-of-the-philosophers

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on February 21, 2010 at 9:08pm

I agree that we need goals and sense feelings of interconnected with the universe, our planet, the present and future generations - but, how about the importance of knowing the self? Where does that fit in? How can "I" connect to something as vast as the universe if "I" have no centre? Should I make God my centre? How about Science? What does anything mean if I have an ill-developed sense of My Self. You've heard this song before. What if I am like an eternal spark or light - a channel or force around which matter assembles and through which the life force flows? Suppose the essence we call Tree, channels the same force and expresses itself through seed, roots, trunk, branches, leaves. Suppose human life is expressed through a classes of particles that in turn express themselves in matter. Do we need science to tell us what's possible? Have the ancient stories of goat herders helped us solve local/global problems we face now and tomorrow? I am not a goat that wants to be herded no more? How about you - a herder or a follower?

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Permalink Reply by Jeff H on February 21, 2010 at 9:20pm

Kernal said:

"Have the ancient stories of goat herders helped us solve local/global problems we face now and tomorrow?"

Name a teaching of Christ that wouldn't benefit mankind if followed. if you would please Kernal.

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on February 21, 2010 at 9:53pm

Jeff, I'm a big fan of Jesus of Nazareth. I grew up a Christian, learned about him and don't have many arguments with what he said. I later found that others uttered similar teaching before him and after him. Its the ones who today profess to tend the flocks that irk me. I think they use JEsus the way Nike uses the Swoosh.

Someone once told me that if Christians could achieve unity, they would rule the world. What prevents those that worship Jesus from achieving unity. Is the problem with the flock of goats or the with herders? Could you do me a favour. Could your write down 5 or 10 of the main teachings you are referring to. Seriously. Gather them for us to see teachings that would benefit mankind?

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