Foundation #1 - Happenstance or Intellegent Design
This foundation module ask if the universe of matter is an arbitrary fluke or whether it is the…See More
The mixing of religious and non-religious beliefs in an individual.
Let's Rock # 7- Will the Real Messiah Please Stand Up?
From Josh McDowell "A Ready Defense"
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/main.htm
Jesus had various credentials to support His claims to being Messiah, God's son. One credential often overlooked, one of the most profound, is the fulfillment of prophecy in His life.
Over and over again Jesus appealed to the prophecies of the Old Testament to substantiate His claims as the Messiah. Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law." Here we have reference to the prophecies being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
And beginning with Moses and with all the prophets He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures (Luke 24:27).
Jesus said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44). He said, "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me" (John 5:46). He also said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day" (John 8:56).
The apostles, the New Testament writers, etc., constantly appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate the claims of Jesus as the Son of God, the Savior, the Messiah.
But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He has thus fulfilled (Acts 3:18).
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures [meaning the Old Testaments], explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ" (Acts 17:2,3).
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures [in other words, Christ's death was prophesied in the Old Testament], and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3,4).
In the Old Testament there are sixty major messianic prophecies and approximately 270 ramifications that were fulfilled in one person, Jesus Christ. It is helpful to look at all these predictions fulfilled in Christ as His "address." You've probably never realized how important the details of you r name and address are -and yet these details set you apart from the five billion other people who also inhabit this planet.
An Address in History
With even greater detail, God wrote an address in history to single out His Son, the Messiah, the Savior of mankind, from anyone who has ever lived in history -past, present, or future. The specifics of this address can be found in the Old Testament, a document written over a period of a thousand years, which contains more than three hundred references to His coming. Using the science of probability, we find the chances of just forty-eight of these prophecies being fulfilled in one person to be right at one in 10157 (a one followed by 157 zeros!).
The task of matching up God's address with one man is further complicated by the fact that all the prophecies of the Messiah were made at least 400 years before He was to appear. Some might disagree and say that these prophecies were written down after the time of Christ and fabricated to coincide with His life. This might sound feasible until you realize that the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, was translated around 150-200 B.C. This Greek translation shows that there was at least a two-hundred-year gap between the prophecies being recorded and their fulfillment in Christ.
Certainly God was writing an address in history that only the Messiah could fulfill. Approximately forty major claims to be the Jewish Messiah have been made by men. Only one-Jesus Christ-appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate His claims, and only His credentials back up those claims.
What were some of those details? And what events had to precede and coincide with the appearance of God's Son?
To begin, we need to go way back to Genesis 3:15. Here we have the first messianic prophecy. In all of Scripture, only one man was "born of the seed of a woman" -all others are born of the seed of a man. Here is the one who will come into the world and undo the works of Satan ("bruise His head").
In Genesis 9 and 10 God narrowed the address down further. Noah had three sons, Shem, Japheth, and Ham. Today all of the nations of the world can be traced back to these three men. But in this passage, God effectively eliminated two-thirds of them from the line of Messiahship. The Messiah will come through the lineage of Shem.
Continuing on to the year 2000 B.C., we find God calling a man named Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldees. With Abraham, God became still more specific, stating that the Messiah will be one of his descendants (Genesis 12; 17; 22). All the families of the earth will be blessed through Abraham. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael, but many of his descendants were eliminated when God selected his second son, Isaac (Genesis 17;21).
Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau, and God chose the line of Jacob (Genesis 28; 35:10-12; Numbers 24:17). Jacob had twelve sons, out of whom developed the twelve tribes of Israel. God singled out the tribe of Judah for Messiahship and eliminated 11/12ths of the Israelite tribes. And of all the family lines within Judah's tribe, the line of Jesse was the divine choice (Isaiah 11:1-5). One can see the probability of Jesus being the Messiah building.
Jesse had eight children and in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 and Jeremiah 23:5 God eliminated 7/8ths of Jesse's family line: We read that God's man will not only be of the seed of a woman, the lineage of Shem, the race of the Jews, the line of Isaac, the line of Jacob, the tribe of Judah, but that He will also be of the house of David.
A prophecy dating 1012 B.C. (Psalm 22:6-18; cf. Zechariah 12:10 and Galatians 3:13) also predicts that this man's hands and feet will be pierced (i.e., He will be crucified). This description was written eight hundred years before crucifixion began to be practiced by the Romans.
Isaiah 7:14 adds that this man will be born of a virgin -a natural birth of unnatural conception, a criterion beyond human planning and control. Several prophecies recorded in Isaiah and the psalms describe the social climate and response that God's man will encounter: His own people, the Jews, will reject Him and the Gentiles will believe in Him (Isaiah 8:14; 28:16; 49:6; 50:6; 52:53; 60:3; Psalms 22:7,8; 118:22). There will be a forerunner for Him (Isaiah 40:3; Malachi 3:1), a voice in the wilderness, one preparing the way before the Lord, a John the Baptist.
Thirty Pieces of Silver
Notice, too, the seven ramifications of a prophecy (Zechariah 11:11-13; cf. Psalm 41, Jeremiah 32:6-15, and Matthew 27:3-10) that narrows the drama down even further. Here God indicates the Messiah will be (1) betrayed, (2) by a friend, (3) for thirty pieces, (4) of silver, that will be (5) cast onto the floor, (6) of the Temple, and (7) used to buy a potter's field.
In Micah 5:2 God eliminated all the cities of the world and selected Bethlehem, with a population of less than a thousand, as the Messiah's birthplace.
Then through a series of prophecies He even defined the time sequence that would set His man apart. For example, Malachi 3:1 and four other Old Testament verses (Psalm 118:26; Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 11:13; Haggai 2:7-9) require the Messiah to come while the Temple of Jerusalem is still standing. This is of great significance when we realize that the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 and has not since been rebuilt.
The precise lineage; the place, time, and manner of birth; people's reactions; the betrayal; the manner of death. These are just a fraction of the hundreds of details that made up the address to identify God's Son, the Messiah, the Savior of the world.
Objection: Such Fulfilled Prophecy Was Coincidental
"Why, you could find some of these prophecies fulfilled in Kennedy'. King, Nassar, etc." replies a critic. Yes, one could possibly find one or two prophecies fulfilled in other men, but not all 60 major prophecies and 270 ramifications. H. Harold Artzler, of the American Scientific Affiliation, in the foreword of a book by Peter W. Stoner writes:
The manuscript for Science Speaks has been carefully reviewed by a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation members and by the Executive Council of the same group and has been found, in general, to be dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented. The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound, and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way. 74
The following probabilities are taken from that book to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight prophecies, "we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that
Now these prophecies were either given by inspiration of God or the prophets just wrote them as they thought they should be. In such a case the prophets had just one chance in 10 17 of having them come true in any man, but they all came true in Christ.
This means that the fulfillment of these eight prophecies alone proves that God inspired the writing of those prophecies to a definiteness which lacks only one chance in 1017 of being absolute.
Objection: Jesus Tried to Fulfill Prophecies
Another objection is that Jesus deliberately attempted to fulfill the Jewish prophecies. This objection seems plausible until we realize that many of the details of the Messiah's coming were totally beyond human control.
For example, the place of birth. I can just hear Jesus in Mary's womb as she rode on the donkey: "Mom, we won't make it!"
When Herod asked the chief priests and scribes, "Where is the Christ to be born?" they said, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it has been written by the prophet" (Matthew 2:5). The time of His coming. The manner of His birth. Betrayal by Judas and the betrayal price. The manner of His death. The people's reaction. The mocking and spitting, the staring. The casting of dice for His clothes. The non-tearing of His garment, etc. Half the prophecies are beyond His fulfillment. He couldn't work it out to be born of the seed of the woman, the lineage of Shem, the descendants of Abraham, etc. No wonder Jesus and the apostles appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate His claim.
Why did God go to all this trouble? I believe He wanted Jesus Christ to have all the credentials He needed when He came into the world. Yet the most exciting thing about Jesus Christ is that He came to change lives. He alone proved the hundreds of Old Testament prophecies that described His coming to be correct. He alone can fulfill the greatest prophecy of all for those who will accept it -the promise of new life: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you" (Ezekiel 36:25-27). "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/main.htm
Jesus had various credentials to support His claims to being Messiah, God's son. One credential often overlooked, one of the most profound, is the fulfillment of prophecy in His life.
Over and over again Jesus appealed to the prophecies of the Old Testament to substantiate His claims as the Messiah. Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law." Here we have reference to the prophecies being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
And beginning with Moses and with all the prophets He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures (Luke 24:27).
Jesus said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44). He said, "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me" (John 5:46). He also said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day" (John 8:56).
The apostles, the New Testament writers, etc., constantly appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate the claims of Jesus as the Son of God, the Savior, the Messiah.
But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He has thus fulfilled (Acts 3:18).
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures [meaning the Old Testaments], explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ" (Acts 17:2,3).
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures [in other words, Christ's death was prophesied in the Old Testament], and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3,4).
In the Old Testament there are sixty major messianic prophecies and approximately 270 ramifications that were fulfilled in one person, Jesus Christ. It is helpful to look at all these predictions fulfilled in Christ as His "address." You've probably never realized how important the details of you r name and address are -and yet these details set you apart from the five billion other people who also inhabit this planet.
An Address in History
With even greater detail, God wrote an address in history to single out His Son, the Messiah, the Savior of mankind, from anyone who has ever lived in history -past, present, or future. The specifics of this address can be found in the Old Testament, a document written over a period of a thousand years, which contains more than three hundred references to His coming. Using the science of probability, we find the chances of just forty-eight of these prophecies being fulfilled in one person to be right at one in 10157 (a one followed by 157 zeros!).
The task of matching up God's address with one man is further complicated by the fact that all the prophecies of the Messiah were made at least 400 years before He was to appear. Some might disagree and say that these prophecies were written down after the time of Christ and fabricated to coincide with His life. This might sound feasible until you realize that the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, was translated around 150-200 B.C. This Greek translation shows that there was at least a two-hundred-year gap between the prophecies being recorded and their fulfillment in Christ.
Certainly God was writing an address in history that only the Messiah could fulfill. Approximately forty major claims to be the Jewish Messiah have been made by men. Only one-Jesus Christ-appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate His claims, and only His credentials back up those claims.
What were some of those details? And what events had to precede and coincide with the appearance of God's Son?
To begin, we need to go way back to Genesis 3:15. Here we have the first messianic prophecy. In all of Scripture, only one man was "born of the seed of a woman" -all others are born of the seed of a man. Here is the one who will come into the world and undo the works of Satan ("bruise His head").
In Genesis 9 and 10 God narrowed the address down further. Noah had three sons, Shem, Japheth, and Ham. Today all of the nations of the world can be traced back to these three men. But in this passage, God effectively eliminated two-thirds of them from the line of Messiahship. The Messiah will come through the lineage of Shem.
Continuing on to the year 2000 B.C., we find God calling a man named Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldees. With Abraham, God became still more specific, stating that the Messiah will be one of his descendants (Genesis 12; 17; 22). All the families of the earth will be blessed through Abraham. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael, but many of his descendants were eliminated when God selected his second son, Isaac (Genesis 17;21).
Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau, and God chose the line of Jacob (Genesis 28; 35:10-12; Numbers 24:17). Jacob had twelve sons, out of whom developed the twelve tribes of Israel. God singled out the tribe of Judah for Messiahship and eliminated 11/12ths of the Israelite tribes. And of all the family lines within Judah's tribe, the line of Jesse was the divine choice (Isaiah 11:1-5). One can see the probability of Jesus being the Messiah building.
Jesse had eight children and in 2 Samuel 7:12-16 and Jeremiah 23:5 God eliminated 7/8ths of Jesse's family line: We read that God's man will not only be of the seed of a woman, the lineage of Shem, the race of the Jews, the line of Isaac, the line of Jacob, the tribe of Judah, but that He will also be of the house of David.
A prophecy dating 1012 B.C. (Psalm 22:6-18; cf. Zechariah 12:10 and Galatians 3:13) also predicts that this man's hands and feet will be pierced (i.e., He will be crucified). This description was written eight hundred years before crucifixion began to be practiced by the Romans.
Isaiah 7:14 adds that this man will be born of a virgin -a natural birth of unnatural conception, a criterion beyond human planning and control. Several prophecies recorded in Isaiah and the psalms describe the social climate and response that God's man will encounter: His own people, the Jews, will reject Him and the Gentiles will believe in Him (Isaiah 8:14; 28:16; 49:6; 50:6; 52:53; 60:3; Psalms 22:7,8; 118:22). There will be a forerunner for Him (Isaiah 40:3; Malachi 3:1), a voice in the wilderness, one preparing the way before the Lord, a John the Baptist.
Thirty Pieces of Silver
Notice, too, the seven ramifications of a prophecy (Zechariah 11:11-13; cf. Psalm 41, Jeremiah 32:6-15, and Matthew 27:3-10) that narrows the drama down even further. Here God indicates the Messiah will be (1) betrayed, (2) by a friend, (3) for thirty pieces, (4) of silver, that will be (5) cast onto the floor, (6) of the Temple, and (7) used to buy a potter's field.
In Micah 5:2 God eliminated all the cities of the world and selected Bethlehem, with a population of less than a thousand, as the Messiah's birthplace.
Then through a series of prophecies He even defined the time sequence that would set His man apart. For example, Malachi 3:1 and four other Old Testament verses (Psalm 118:26; Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 11:13; Haggai 2:7-9) require the Messiah to come while the Temple of Jerusalem is still standing. This is of great significance when we realize that the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 and has not since been rebuilt.
The precise lineage; the place, time, and manner of birth; people's reactions; the betrayal; the manner of death. These are just a fraction of the hundreds of details that made up the address to identify God's Son, the Messiah, the Savior of the world.
Objection: Such Fulfilled Prophecy Was Coincidental
"Why, you could find some of these prophecies fulfilled in Kennedy'. King, Nassar, etc." replies a critic. Yes, one could possibly find one or two prophecies fulfilled in other men, but not all 60 major prophecies and 270 ramifications. H. Harold Artzler, of the American Scientific Affiliation, in the foreword of a book by Peter W. Stoner writes:
The manuscript for Science Speaks has been carefully reviewed by a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation members and by the Executive Council of the same group and has been found, in general, to be dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented. The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound, and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way. 74
The following probabilities are taken from that book to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight prophecies, "we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that
Now these prophecies were either given by inspiration of God or the prophets just wrote them as they thought they should be. In such a case the prophets had just one chance in 10 17 of having them come true in any man, but they all came true in Christ.
This means that the fulfillment of these eight prophecies alone proves that God inspired the writing of those prophecies to a definiteness which lacks only one chance in 1017 of being absolute.
Objection: Jesus Tried to Fulfill Prophecies
Another objection is that Jesus deliberately attempted to fulfill the Jewish prophecies. This objection seems plausible until we realize that many of the details of the Messiah's coming were totally beyond human control.
For example, the place of birth. I can just hear Jesus in Mary's womb as she rode on the donkey: "Mom, we won't make it!"
When Herod asked the chief priests and scribes, "Where is the Christ to be born?" they said, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it has been written by the prophet" (Matthew 2:5). The time of His coming. The manner of His birth. Betrayal by Judas and the betrayal price. The manner of His death. The people's reaction. The mocking and spitting, the staring. The casting of dice for His clothes. The non-tearing of His garment, etc. Half the prophecies are beyond His fulfillment. He couldn't work it out to be born of the seed of the woman, the lineage of Shem, the descendants of Abraham, etc. No wonder Jesus and the apostles appealed to fulfilled prophecy to substantiate His claim.
Why did God go to all this trouble? I believe He wanted Jesus Christ to have all the credentials He needed when He came into the world. Yet the most exciting thing about Jesus Christ is that He came to change lives. He alone proved the hundreds of Old Testament prophecies that described His coming to be correct. He alone can fulfill the greatest prophecy of all for those who will accept it -the promise of new life: "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you" (Ezekiel 36:25-27). "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Views: 18
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on -
No, no, no dear Robert. I do not claim to already have one. I claim to already be one. Wake up.
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on -
then why this forum
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on
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where di you git it?
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on
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if at K Mart it might be a facsimle or a clever copy..if from jC it is a real mcCoy once you are born again.
Jus checkin OK?
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Permalink Reply by Khem the Is Real-ite on -
Except that Okhidanokh is the most mysterious force in the universe, known colloquially as "electricity".
As Nikola Tesla sagely observed: "Whoever can understand what electricity IS will have resolved all the secrets of the universe".
Pity I can't pass them on to all you non-Knowers.
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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
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Robert, if one wakes up and in the process discovers their true nature does this then mean it was not there all along?
dattaswami says that the soul (own true essence or self) is not eternal. You also seem to be saying that you are not eternal.
If something knows no beginning then it has no end.
Can something that knows a beginning be eternal?
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on
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get it - You know how to think but John don't. Are we, who do not think the way you do, still asleep?. Err, how come we can tell you are an evil sinner, but think your saved by some fundamentalist fantasy religion
Alexander I am not saved by a "religion"..I am saved by the sacrifice accomplished for me and you by Jesus on our behalf..who as the only "begotten son, sent here in th fulness of time (on a strict predesignated date and time,), " by the invisable God His FAaher( and your true father..not your sperm father), had the supreme authority to erase my imperfections, absorb them, extinguish them and enter into me (upon my request) and then begin to teach me all that I need to know to learn how to follow Him wherever He takes me deeper into His light and His love for mankind.
One based on fear, (No Alexander Love not fear..Satan instills fear..especially the fear of "DEath", torch eyed and terrible "Death"), heaven and hell superstition and perpetual life. One with a sexist founder, (again No, you must be reading soime other book, Alexander, in Christ there is no male nor female no Jew nor Greek),m endorsing slavery and war (No again Alexander Jesus is the Prince of Peace.where did you find all these lies and misconceptions?
Ask Him to awaken you too His person so you can truly get to know Him
You getting sleepy yet?
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on
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Robert, if one wakes up and in the process discovers their true nature does this then mean it was not there all along?
EXCELENT QUESTION Kernal,,,God has depostited in every single solitary person His light..that is what we recognize as "life" (When the light goes out at "death" the light goes out and we fall into another type of sleep says Jesus).
(when Jesus raised Lazarus from death He said that Lazarus was sleep..so Jesus beng a man of terrific insights..commanded him to wake upQ..which he did)).
So that "life is what animates us and gives us a "consciousness" that perceives what we deem "reality as our five senses channel the outside world into our mind..where it lingers until we dddddie in our sub conscious (psychology 101 right?)
When a person starts wondering about the possability of finding the meaning of "kife" we tend to go to "Sciece" for many answers and/or religion, or metaphysics (which I prefer).
Gurdjieff spent most of his adult life seeking what he discovered were teachings of the early church that have all but disappeared except for what he discovered in a monastary close to Jerusalem he called "an Essene Brothrhood" where essential teachings we shared with him from the brethren there that were tasked with preserving the ancient (now secret), teachings of the early church before the "teachings went underground because of the jack boots of the Roman Empire "church that stamped out all opposition to its dogmas and self appointed Bisjps, Cardinals and evenrually a Poop that masquerades as "The Vicar of christ", so that he can demand oopedince and free rides on that fancy chair carried by his slaves..or occasionally he rides in the safe and secure poop mobile.
So Gurdjieff learned that Jesus taught how to wake up from our trance of a mind encumbeered by memories and thoughts of a future that does not exist since we create the sense of a future ourselves since "time" seems to pass all aroud us so we imagine a future..therefore creting the illusion of time that satisfies our mind and its programming..out "program" inside our soft machine called our body/mind.
That "life" light inside is God let's say, or at least it is a spark of Go's "light" and the bilbe says God is Light with no "shadow of turning". Our task is to (if we are curious that is) is too find that light inside so we can anjoy God and at the same time be lifted up "put of the time thing" as often as we are aware of that light. But the problem is that it is so tinly at first and so undernourished down there in our sub conscious darness, that it is staved and needs its "type" of food to grow big and strong enough to be fully awaked like Jesus.
One of Jesus assignments that was given him from birth (a very special birt was to be educated in an Essene community as evidence in the Dead Sea scrools that describe that community and its beliefs in some deatil.
The Essenes looked at the sun every morning and at times throughout the day alongside other routines likke the common meal, water baptism (John was Jesus cousin they were raised together in the community), all property held in common (yes they were communists..Oh My Gott!), and a reverence for the scripurs, all ovf which became the foundational elements of the early church.
Now we get to that "light" mentioned earlier..that light is life itself but it is hidden or buried..or asleep so we need to discover it once someone informs us that it is available..and that it is called the soul in religins..it is called the True self in "esoteric" psycholgy like Plato, Jesus, Gurdjieff and a few other arcane archelogists and explorers that dig it.
Learning how to look at the sun and 'drink" in that sunlight has an automatic effect as it travesl down the optic berve, says Hi to the pineal gland, the master gland and then filters gradually into an entire unconscious subtle system bveyond the nervous and plumbing systems in out very sophisticated machine. That system operates on a subtle set of frequencies..energetic channels that are evidenced in the acupuncture maps and charts from the mysterious East.
That is in essence why I look at the sun for an accelerated alarm clock I need to wake up. Once I am awake the presnt is the only reality worth considering since it has Godlike potential for being a sub creator in Gods Art schooll.
(Speed to the Renaissance)
dattaswami says that the soul (own true essence or self) is not eternal. You also seem to be saying that you are not eternal.
I am not eternal, my body is not eternal, my light body which is my my soul, my "true self" is, thanks to Jesus only..He wiped clean my memory, (forgave all my idiocies), and restarted my computer and reprogrammed it and taught me to look to the sun for power, and freed me up from my past life as a robot.
If something knows no beginning then it has no end.
You can be born again and be "restarted" for a brand new beginning..truly
Can something that knows a beginning be eternal?
Yes once you "know" Jesus you know eternity..once you grow your true self you "live" eternity
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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
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I ask a simple question . . .
"If one wakes up and in the process
discovers their true nature does this then mean it was not there all along?". . . and you respond . . .
"EXCELENT QUESTION Kernal,,,God has depostited in every single solitary person His light..that is what we recognize as "life" (When the light goes out at "death" the light goes out and we fall into another type of sleep says Jesus).
(when Jesus raised Lazarus from death He said that Lazarus was sleep..so Jesus beng a man of terrific insights..commanded him to wake upQ..which he did)).
So that "life is what animates us and gives us a "consciousness" that perceives what we deem "reality as our five senses channel the outside world into our mind..where it lingers until we dddddie in our sub conscious (psychology 101 right?)
When a person starts wondering about the possability of finding the meaning of "kife" we tend to go to "Sciece" for many answers and/or religion, or metaphysics (which I prefer)."
Then you profess your devotion . . .
"Gurdjieff spent most of his adult life seeking what he discovered were teachings of the early church that have all but disappeared except for what he discovered in a monastary close to Jerusalem he called "an Essene Brothrhood" where essential teachings we shared with him from the brethren there that were tasked with preserving the ancient (now secret), teachings of the early church before the "teachings went underground because of the jack boots of the Roman Empire "church that stamped out all opposition to its dogmas and self appointed Bisjps, Cardinals and evenrually a Poop that masquerades as "The Vicar of christ", so that he can demand oopedince and free rides on that fancy chair carried by his slaves..or occasionally he rides in the safe and secure poop mobile.
So Gurdjieff learned that Jesus taught how to wake up from our trance of a mind encumbeered by memories and thoughts of a future that does not exist since we create the sense of a future ourselves since "time" seems to pass all aroud us so we imagine a future..therefore creting the illusion of time that satisfies our mind and its programming..out "program" inside our soft machine called our body/mind.
That "life" light inside is God let's say, or at least it is a spark of Go's "light" and the bilbe says God is Light with no "shadow of turning". Our task is to (if we are curious that is) is too find that light inside so we can anjoy God and at the same time be lifted up "put of the time thing" as often as we are aware of that light. But the problem is that it is so tinly at first and so undernourished down there in our sub conscious darness, that it is staved and needs its "type" of food to grow big and strong enough to be fully awaked like Jesus."
Then you go on . . .
"One of Jesus assignments that was given him from birth (a very special birt was to be educated in an Essene community as evidence in the Dead Sea scrools that describe that community and its beliefs in some deatil.
The Essenes looked at the sun every morning and at times throughout the day alongside other routines likke the common meal, water baptism (John was Jesus cousin they were raised together in the community), all property held in common (yes they were communists..Oh My Gott!), and a reverence for the scripurs, all ovf which became the foundational elements of the early church.
Now we get to that "light" mentioned earlier..that light is life itself but it is hidden or buried..or asleep so we need to discover it once someone informs us that it is available..and that it is called the soul in religins..it is called the True self in "esoteric" psycholgy like Plato, Jesus, Gurdjieff and a few other arcane archelogists and explorers that dig it.
Learning how to look at the sun and 'drink" in that sunlight has an automatic effect as it travesl down the optic berve, says Hi to the pineal gland, the master gland and then filters gradually into an entire unconscious subtle system bveyond the nervous and plumbing systems in out very sophisticated machine. That system operates on a subtle set of frequencies..energetic channels that are evidenced in the acupuncture maps and charts from the mysterious East.
That is in essence why I look at the sun for an accelerated alarm clock I need to wake up. Once I am awake the presnt is the only reality worth considering since it has Godlike potential for being a sub creator in Gods Art schooll.
(Speed to the Renaissance)
This is you response to my statement.
"If one wakes up and in the process
discovers their true nature does this then mean it was not there all along?"You go on to say"
"I am not eternal, my body is not eternal, my light body which is my my soul, my "true self" is, thanks to Jesus only..He wiped clean my memory, (forgave all my idiocies), and restarted my computer and reprogrammed it and taught me to look to the sun for power, and freed me up from my past life as a robot.
If something knows no beginning then it has no end.
You can be born again and be "restarted" for a brand new beginning..truly
Can something that knows a beginning be eternal?
Yes once you "know" Jesus you know eternity..once you grow your true self you "live" eternity"
Thanks Robert for your clear and definitive response.
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Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on
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Tres Elegant Kernal
When you learn to contemplate the sun you will be flooded with visions of the beauty of Godal Mighty. He is constantly creating for you humungous, gaseous, huge and powerful galaxies..just for our amazement.
To be amazed is a rich reward..to stay amazed is the work.
To recognize the Terror of our situation (Gurdjieff) is the best medicine.
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