Foundation #1 - Happenstance or Intellegent Design
This foundation module ask if the universe of matter is an arbitrary fluke or whether it is the…See More
The mixing of religious and non-religious beliefs in an individual.
Meeting the BKs - 1986
I met the BKs at a point in my life (2 kids, wife and mortgage) when I was looking for nothing. I saw a poster in the subway that said:
Golden Sunrise, Golden Morning
A Program in Celebration of UN - International Year of Youth
- Convocation Hall - University of Toronto -
Having done community youth work for a number of years, I was interested, so used my lunch break to attend the event. I entered the Hall at the appointed hour and to my surprise found no one there. I walked around until someone pointed and said, "They're just finishing lunch", and would I like to join them?
So I walked behind the stage and entered a small room were I was greeted by 5 or 6 women all dressed in white. To my surprise, they welcomed me to join them - which I did and sat at the table. We conversed and after the meal was finished, the sisters returned to the Hall and I with them to enjoy the program which was quite impressive considering there was almost no one there - high caliber artists performed. Very talented people.
A sat about 15 rows back but recall there were no more than a 25 people in the audience and almost all of these were program organizers and associates. I became laughingly known as the "Expensive Child", for I was the only one to attend the event. Strange.
After the presentation, I approached one of the sisters and asked, "Who are you people?" This was my introduction to the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization. I inquired, "Are you a religion?". The girl said, "No, we don't actually believe in religion." "We believe that man's true religion is that of peace, she said. I asked, "What do you believe in? Do you believe in God?" The girl quietly responded, "Yes, first we understand that you are a soul - an infinitesimal point of luminescent light that is seated in the centre of the forehead above and behind the eyebrows and that God is your father." I told her of a recurring experience I was having and she said I should met the senior sister - Sister Sudesh. After a brief encounter she asked if I had taken the 7 Day Course. I asked what it was and was told is was 7 one hour sessions that explained the essence of the knowledge embodies by this organization. I asked how much it cost and was told it was free. Sudesh turned to one of her colleagues and asked how long until they returned to London then turned to me and said she could give the course if I came to the Raja Yoga Meditation Centre every day fro the next week. For the week, I went an took the class. Most were actually given by Sister Joy from the London Centre.
During these days following he course and for several weeks after, I experienced a state of what could not be called less than spiritual intoxication. I called it grace.
Although I was never a swift learner, this knowledge seemed to come easily. Even the meditation came easy. I remember on the final class being invited by Joy to sit for my first meditation - done with eyes open. She explained I should sit comfortably and direct my sight across the room to the centre of her forehead. After a period of what seemed like 10 or 12 minutes 3 circular, smoke-ring like, waves of energy emerged from the centre of her forehead and drifted across the room until they enveloped me, 1 - 2 - 3, and then, much to my surprise, a single ring of this energy wave emerged from my forehead and floated across the room to her. No sooner did it reach her than she slowly closed her eyes and concluded the meditation. I said nothing.
We then went back downstairs where I met for a few intimate minutes with Sister Sudesh. This was my initial introduction to the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization - September 1985. By February 1986, I on my way to attend 2 events at the BK Headquarters - Mount Abu, India. The first was an the 50th Golden Jubilee Celebration of the Organization. Following this I attended an International Peace Conference.
Views: 1165
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on -
As you know James, it is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, it is a question of understanding the other POV.
I must admit it a bizarre to communicate with someone who finds such great satisfaction from intellectualizing various POVs without really refining or standing for one of his own.
Your intellectualizations are of less interest and value than your personalizations. To intellectualize does not reveal ones personal values, priorities or understanding. If I wanted to avoid intimacy I would dwell in the relative safety of intellectual meanderings.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
James, so you think it is arrogant and foolish for you to assume my POV is the only possible correct one - ref.
Why would one ever think their view is the only correct one? One the other hand, why would one want to have a serious and productive discussion with someone who was not committed to a their POV.
No James. There is more to it than this. You like dragging conversations out and around. When you are committed to a view then find it is difficult or impossible to defend, this is much more difficult than being able to dance between various positions. The problem of course is it doesn't lead to productive discussion or advancement. I suspect then that making conclusions is not why you discuss. Perhaps entertainment of some kind more accurately describes you inexact motivation.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
You tell me:
You do not understand that worship of God has everything to do with the
Nature of the Soul and you call yourself a BK?
Are you sure bkism has nothing to do with the worship of God?James, you're playing your silly little games again. Here I am suggesting that you have not presented a single coherent or concise description of the nature of the Soul etc; because I don't think you really have one - ref. As such, you respond back by misdirecting the conversation.
So let's take a quick look at what you appear to be doing.
I got a kick out of your declarative statement:
". . . and you call yourself a BK".
First off James, there is no doubt in my mind that you don't really know what a BK is to begin with.
Second of all, do you ever recall me calling myself a BK. Of course you didn't. You're just trying to stir the pot again because you lack a coherent perspective of your own regarding the nature of the soul you would like to confuse or misdirect the discussion - or at least that's how it appears to me.James, above you say,
"the worship of God has everything to do with the Nature of the Soul"
If you could supply previously requested bullet points on the nature of the soul I would be glad to hear how they relate to the importance of worship of God. It would be difficult to take what you say seriously if you can't at least do this.Finally you ask, if I'm certain "BKism", as you put it, has anything to do with the worship of God. I gave you my opinion of Christianity when it comes to worship and you are reluctant to freely share yours regarding the BKs. Come on James. You seem to be implying that you have one.
My original point to you was that I found Christianity for be very much focused on the worship of Jesus as God. People pray to him, many knell down to him, they remember (drink) his blood etc. By comparison, how do you imagine the BKs worship. Carer to share?
I am not here to defend the BKs. If you don't understand how the notion of worship is incorporated into the BK view, I'd be glad to answer your specific queries to the best of my abilities, otherwise you should do your own investigations or even drop by the BK centre yourself for a wee chat.
What do you know about BK worship practices James? : )
Would you rather be a good worshiper of worship worthy like Jesus?
-
Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on -
can you have sunshine without a sun?
can my words exist if i do not?
can you have creation without a creator
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
James you sorrow is not something you bring. It's something to give or take.
Just because you take sorrow out of something I have written does not mean it was intended to be hurtful. Guilt is something you can try to use but I'm on another trip.
As for there being no evil before Adam and Eve created it? I recall that evil did exist on or in the Tree of Knowledge. Look you can interpret the story however you want but please understand I have not been subject to many of the dogmas Christians have. There is no way I would conclude from reading the bible that evil was created by mankind. Duality (good and evil) is an intrinsic constituent in the dichotomous universe that was never created or destroyed.
The sudden realization of nakedness represents realization of self as a body - descent into body-consciousness. The 1st few pages of the bible contain great insights with the proper knowledge - although it would appear you would prefer to not discuss at more meaningful levels - MORE.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
God question James. Why do you have a body? I don't know. You have to figure that out on your own. I understand however that to come into matter (to feel and experience the bliss of life) one needs a body.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
May be you are not infinitesimal. Maybe you are bigger than the universe itself James. I can only speak for me on this matter - which I have already done. And now when faced with the choice of serious exploration of inexactitude, you prefer to reveal your natural tendency.
-
Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on
-
all are perceptions of reality, physical reflections of a spiritual reality we can only know from outside the box or container in which we have been placed.
PB has his visions, I have mine. Nothing is the same old same old, everything old is new again.. same old same new so to speak.
you can create a play and have actors simply recite the words you have written.
Or you can create a play and give the actors freewill to take the play where it will go by improvising?
can they create a wonderful play? yes
can they create a disaster of a play? yes
what makes BD's visions any different from the visions of a million other visionaries? persuasion and charm?, a large supply of ignorant sheep willing to trade their riches for a promise of heaven? dont say it hasnt been done before and since.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
So your undocumented notion of SORT needs no refinement? OK.
That said, let's shift discussion to exactly how one can align or attune oneself to receive this SORT. Do you have a few bullet points you would like to share or is every person to figure this out on their own. Does one, for example, have to receive Jesus as their lord and savior before they can receive SOTR? Is prayer the best way to receive it or are their other means - Ouija Board for example or drugs, etc.
Expanding a concept, though this may prove to be the source of distortion, may be the means of enabling others to find means of accepting or understanding the concept. One others share common understanding, it may be possible to then refine or further distil the idea/concept.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
James, I think you are using me to have this conversation with yourself.
I would find it difficult for me to see you as a team player.
-
Permalink Reply by Kernel John on
-
Yes you can have creation without a creator James.
It's called Eternity - Matter/Energy that is neither created nor destroyed. Even science understands something must have caused the Big Bang.
As for your words existing if you did not . . . . the far more salient question would be - could James exist without so much verbiage?
And yes, every time I step into the shade and look outside, I see the sunshine but not the sun.
James your 3 questions had virtually nothing, from what I could see, to do with the point I was trying to convey to you. They were more intellectual tripe.
-
Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on
-
In your scenario , you cant lose, all is predetermiined so like the "saved christian" you can sin all you want, steal rape pillage murder but in the end you get a free pass into heaven. How many times have christians been tarred and feathered for adhering to such a scenario?
I prefer my "now is all there is" and eternity is found in the now so make the now the best you can be now, dont wait for a tomorrow for your joy to be made complete in God.
God created tsunamis? really? gods creation was perfect .. a garden of eden .. It was adam that screwed that up. How do you know tsunamis are a part of our creation "it will be done according to your faith according to Jesus " the power of positive thinking works both ways .. if enough people believe or have faith that a meteor will destroy the earth that works as easily as if enough people have faith that there will be salvation and a new heaven and earth, there will. Or if enough people believe aliens will save them, it will be so according to their faith. like shroeder(sp?) cat in the box... were there really dinosaurs in the earth for thosands of years or did they suddenly appear to be dug up when enough faith was exhibited that they existed?
The problem with creation, "god knows what we need before we even ask" as such anything can be placed into the historic timeline as need be. If you dont need dinosaur bones, they are left out, if you do need them they can be added to the storyline as need and faith declare at that time with past history included. A simple historical revision as we humans know all too well how to do.
Are there an infinite number of dimensions where any scenario of reality exists for any possible reality? Some people think it is possible. Some very intelligent people apparently.
Yes new paradigms..new realities...new creations every micronanomillisecond.
Just mention Open Source Religion, Proprietary Religion, Belief Genome, Belief Modules, or Prerequisite Beliefs in a tweet to appear in this twitter feed.
Latest Activity
Sidian M.S. Jones replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion Belief Genome Update"You'll be the first Kernel."
Kernel John replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion Belief Genome Update"Looking forward to it Sid. Let me know when testing begins."
Khem the Is Real-ite replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"ibid.
"
Khem the Is Real-ite replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"ibid.
"
Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion was featuredBelief Genome Update
Just a short message here to let everyone know that code work on the Belief Genome is coming right…See More
Kernel John replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"Sid, I read the article. Thanks for sharing it.
Yes, willpower is the name that we give…"
Kernel John replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"Khem,
Ibid? An lame way to deepen or expand discussion. . . or perhaps that's as deep as…"
Khem the Is Real-ite replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"ibid.
"
Kernel John replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"The Occult Law of Gravity that you refer to sounds like it is based on myth and superstition. …"
Khem the Is Real-ite replied to Sidian M.S. Jones's discussion It Matters Whether You Believe in Will Power"The non-entity who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool; shun him.
"
© 2012 Created by Sidian M.S. Jones.
