Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 14, 2012 at 10:50am

Let's do a poll.

"Are you in favor of limiting discussion to such topics as How Belief Modules work? The effect of OSR on society? The future of OSR? Its past? How to further evolve the OSR movement?"

Y/N? - Yes

Comments: If someone is responsible for "moderating" each discussion.  I do however wonder if this should not have been done sooner.  I suspect those still present are more interested in defending their own parochial views then exploring the views (modules) of others or even presenting their own.  Robert, Neg, James, Adriaan, Khem, doug, Roman, Jeff H, what yo you all think? 

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Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 14, 2012 at 11:53am

 

The problem is that "religions" are an expression of the HUGE MAJORITY of peoples beliefs, thus the source of the information necessary to create "BELIEF modules"

I have suddenly become immensely aware of the inability of people immersed in these belief systems to show any kind of tolerance to people of other belief systems and I think people like Kernal only "pretend" to be tolerant of others belief systems  in order to express their own belief system in such a ways as to draw people into it.

All the above makes perfect sense because people believe what they believe for a reason that they believe is justifiable based on their own experiences.

The key here is to allow everyone to toot their own horn and THEN "try" to assemble a commity of non relgious people (be careful because the sheep also can disguise themselves as wolves)  to glean the information of these religious people into non religious expressions of the concepts involved in these religious beliefs.

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Permalink Reply by Charles Bruce Stewart on March 15, 2012 at 5:51pm

I believe that "Closing the Religious Debate Section" is an "Over Reaction" to this admitted problem of "Religious Zealots Screaming" Their Opinions at each other, & there-by distracting from the more tangible/secular/real-world goals of promoting harmony through the concept of "Open Source Religion". 

It has probably been over a year since i visited this OSR web-page; & i would like to become involved again in pursuing OSR's stated primary-goals. My last experience here seemed to indicate that the people in charge were not ready to make the tough-decisions necessary to truly promote the stated-goals of OSR.  If any such mental-block/log-jam in the effort to pursue the stated-goals of OSR can now be circumvented, then there are options available, imho, that can quickly & efficiently enable the achievement of those goals.  Here-by; the problem with distracting there-from through the mostly useless noise-makers in the theological-debating-crowd can mostly just be disregarded.

Charles Stewart, Sandy Oregon, charles@constitutionalgov.us , 503-668-5091.
http://constitutionalgov.us/Archive/Charles/Fundamentals/

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 16, 2012 at 8:37am

James perhaps you have become aware of your own intolerance. 

Kernel John does not "pretend" to be tolerant.  Why would you make this accusation except to show your lack of tolerance.  Come on James.  You are better than that.

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Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 16, 2012 at 10:49am

 

Huh? No Kernel I am NOT "better" than "that" or anyone or anything. I am just me. And yes I have the same frailties that I accuse everyone else of.

I am confused John, when you say you do not "pretend" to be tolerant, are you saying that you really are  tolerant?

 Or are you saying when you say you do not pretend to be tolerant, that your  tolerance is not a pretence? That you really are a tolerant person?

 EDIT:

The context of your content can be taken in many ways and would make a great deal of difference in terms of who you present yourself to be.

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 19, 2012 at 1:18pm

Yes James, I agree, you are confused. 

Above, in your opening comment, you said,

". . . I think people like Kernal only "pretend" to be tolerant of others belief systems . . .  "

I have no idea why you would say this about me, but you did - so I responded to you by saying that I do not "pretend" to be tolerant.  And now you say you are confused.  

Perhaps if you got serious about what you were saying, people you take you seriously.
Focus James focus.  Right another Belief Module.  The last one with Commentary was well done.

For most of us, tolerance is a virtue that is easy to let go of.  Because someone shows tolerance to you James, do not think it is an easy thing for them to do.  Because I have to work very hard at it don't write the gesture off by saying you think I am pretending.  You dink.

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Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 19, 2012 at 2:02pm

My perception of pretense comes from what I hear and see from you and the BK religion.

Why could it not be that the BK simply tolerate all those previous inadequate religions and invite them into their tree like a spider invites flies into its web, to eat them up, to assimilate them and those it cannot digest it will poop them back down to the earth like compost.

Do you think everyone see things the same way you do? Do you have no ability whatsoever to consider that  someone might make such an anaolgy as the flies in the spiders web one above?

Of course there is no possible way that you have any responsibilty for the way people perceive of you Kernel?

It seems my comments were well received by others who may have also seen this as a trait of yours.

But your defence is that Khem and Robert and Jeff and I are all "dinks"

 

 

Kernel said "Because someone shows tolerance to you James, do not think it is an easy thing for them to do.  Because I have to work very hard at it don't write the gesture "

It must be so hard to show tolerance to me... but I wonder "why" it is so hard for you to show tolerance toward me.

Is it because you are not a very tolerant person\spirit that you struggle to control the intolerance within you?

It is so hard to "PRETEND" that you are tolerant when I write messages like this?

Maybe you should be considering what I am saying instead of maddly trying to DEFEND yourself and COUNTER ATTACK!

 
Kernel John said:

Yes James, I agree, you are confused. 

Above, in your opening comment, you said,

". . . I think people like Kernal only "pretend" to be tolerant of others belief systems . . .  "

I have no idea why you would say this about me, but you did - so I responded to you by saying that I do not "pretend" to be tolerant.  And now you say you are confused.  

Perhaps if you got serious about what you were saying, people you take you seriously.
Focus James focus.  Right another Belief Module.  The last one with Commentary was well done.

For most of us, tolerance is a virtue that is easy to let go of.  Because someone shows tolerance to you James, do not think it is an easy thing for them to do.  Because I have to work very hard at it don't write the gesture off by saying you think I am pretending.  You dink.

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 19, 2012 at 3:51pm

James, there is no need to be so defensive unless of course you think I would like to CONVERT you. 

I'm simply saying that it is not always easy for people to be tolerant and that I do not pretend to be what I am not.   What you see is what you get. 

Believe me, I have no intention of luring you into a spiders web.  However, I find the spider web imagery you use to be somewhat revealing of what's going on in your head. 

I understand you fear of being snared in another religion.  But from what you know, do you really think the BKs are interested in recruiting Christians into the Brahmin family? 

Look around you.  Do the Jews ever try to convert Christians into Judaism?  I know Hindus and Buddhists also do not proselytize or try to recruit Christians. There is no sticky web that whats to entrap you James.  Your fear is of your own minds making. 

Are you concerned that others might do unto Christians what Christians have already done unto them? 

In reality, it is the Christians who have spread a web of conversion around the globe during the past centuries.  What you have yet to realize is that the world has moved past all that and most of us are happy to let Christians continue to argue amongst themselves for the next 1500 years. 

So stay where you are but please stop dragging the BKs into your delusion that a group of women based in a developing country is interested in luring Christians like you into their web.  You flatter yourself and are simply over reacting to the last time your were stung by a religion. 

Focus on laying out some Belief Modules.  You do much better at that.  You do better by setting an example rather than crafting lame intellectualizations.

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Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 19, 2012 at 5:43pm

You see what I mean Kernel your first instinct, the very first line you type is an ACCUSATION, attacking me for being defensive. No hint whatsoever that maybe, just maybe the problem may be on your end. But no it is always the other persons fault. Khem, Jeff, Robert,me,

Now I am to blame for being so defensive. Yep , ya got me kernel, just another one of those defensive critters that it is so hard to be tolerant to.

The BK's are interested in snaring anyone who can advance their cause and build their empire. They want to be THE BIG ENCHILADA. Like most other religions, and of course  I am sure they would not refuse the material gifts and moneys  such converts would add to their estate.

I have personally seen Jews on University Avenue trying to convert Christians. So you are either lying or ignorant, either way your dis/misinformation is pointless at best.

I have never been "stung" by any religion. I share my belief modules with many different people of different faiths, I invite Jehovah Witnesses into my home and we never argue about doctrine  but we  share the spirit of God with each other. I talk to buddhists and muslims  , no arguments there  either. None of us change our beliefs and yet we share our love.

So what  are your imaginings based on Kernel? You certainly have no "knowledge" of my  personal life and yet you feel you can make all those ASS umptions about me.

And you are so much worse at setting examples as you have amply demonstrated here time and again in  your baseless accusations against me.

Will you start your next reply to me with another accusation or criticism of ME. Will try and make this about me, or will you just a little SELF examination for the first time in your life? If you do choose to look into the mirror of your own soul let me know what you see, but please don't intellectualize and tell me how you see yourself as some point of energy, blah blah blah. Points of energies do not type messages and make assumptions and accusationsand bring harm to others then try to blame their victim by accussing them of "taking" that which you throw in their face.
 
Kernel John said:

James, there is no need to be so defensive unless of course you think I would like to CONVERT you. 

I'm simply saying that it is not always easy for people to be tolerant and that I do not pretend to be what I am not.   What you see is what you get. 

Believe me, I have no intention of luring you into a spiders web.  However, I find the spider web imagery you use to be somewhat revealing of what's going on in your head. 

I understand you fear of being snared in another religion.  But from what you know, do you really think the BKs are interested in recruiting Christians into the Brahmin family? 

Look around you.  Do the Jews ever try to convert Christians into Judaism?  I know Hindus and Buddhists also do not proselytize or try to recruit Christians. There is no sticky web that whats to entrap you James.  Your fear is of your own minds making. 

Are you concerned that others might do unto Christians what Christians have already done unto them? 

In reality, it is the Christians who have spread a web of conversion around the globe during the past centuries.  What you have yet to realize is that the world has moved past all that and most of us are happy to let Christians continue to argue amongst themselves for the next 1500 years. 

So stay where you are but please stop dragging the BKs into your delusion that a group of women based in a developing country is interested in luring Christians like you into their web.  You flatter yourself and are simply over reacting to the last time your were stung by a religion. 

Focus on laying out some Belief Modules.  You do much better at that.  You do better by setting an example rather than crafting lame intellectualizations.

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Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 19, 2012 at 9:06pm

James my friend, no one is inviting you or anyone else into some kind of imaginary tree like a spider invites flies into its web, to eat them up.  These are your words and images - not mine. They tell about you - not me.

. . . You go on to say that you imagine that this web is "to assimilate them and those it cannot digest it will poop them back down to the earth like compost."  Your imagery is like your prose. 

Hey maybe, I'm wrong.  Maybe you have never been hurt or offended by religion.  You give the impression that at some point you realized that religion is not a good thing.  Did you ever consider yourself to be part of the Christian Religion and do you consider affiliated to a religion now? 

You give out such a negative impression of the BKs.  Why do you keep bringing this organization up in such a questionable light. 

Please understand that I don't think you are really attacking these people.  You have no legitimate reason to do this?  I see you as only trying to protect the security of your own personal belief system.  If not, why do you continually put down the BKs if not to protect yourself.  You are not a victim.  You were never stung by them. 

You are a smart guy who doesn't need to belittle the BKs to show how bright he is.  You are better than that - are you not? 

If you must, continue your negative comments but this reflects more on you than on anything else.  You have never even met a BK.

And BTW, contrary to your feeble suggestion, Jews do not proselytize.  If you wish to argue that because you once met a proselytizing Jew for Jesus or something does not make your understanding correct.  It most definitely is not.

Do your homework.  Do it Jame.  Please.  Do it.  Make 2 lists.  One list of religions that proselytize and the other of religions that do not.  You will find that one list is very very long and the other very very short.  On the short list you will find the Christian religion and not Jews.  You will learn that Christians are the Great Proselytizers.  

Then when you realize that the tradition of proselytizing is almost exclusive to Christianity, why don't you write up the associated belief module that established and supports this tradition. 

Interesting isn't it. . .  how on one hand you defend proselytizing yet fear others who you think would like to convert you and then you get equally upset to find that the Brahmins are not particularly interested in opening the door to meat eating Christians.

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Permalink Reply by Charles Bruce Stewart on March 20, 2012 at 6:06am

James G.;
an abbreviated version of your earlier statement
might be summarized as follows:

> The key here is to allow everyone to ... "try" to assemble a commity
> ... to glean the information ... into into non religious expressions of
> ... these ... beliefs.

I here take the liberty of attempting further clarification of
the essence of your "Proposition", by re-wording it as follows:

"The key here is to allow everyone full opportunity to
try to assemble a committee to glean the information into
expressions of the concepts involved in the the core of
the "Open Source Religion" beliefs."

Yes; if that is a "Workable-Proposition" for your-self;
then you & i have a "Consensus" in its support;
& we can attempt to gather others here on OSR
to form an even larger Consensus with us
around this "Proposition".

I have some specific ideas in this realm;
but i think the wise-course here is to refrain from
confusing this step-by-step "Consensus-Building Process"
until after we can arrive at a "Workable Proposition"
that we can present to the others here on OSR.

Respectfully;

Charles Stewart.
Sandy Oregon.
503-668-5091.

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Permalink Reply by Charles Bruce Stewart on March 20, 2012 at 6:44am

Proposition:

"In efforts to achieve
(one of the "Ultimate Goals" of OSR, of) "Tolerance";
it will First be "Necessary" for creating Separate "Belief Modules";
where-in people of differing belief-systems can each "Elect"
their own cooler-headed & more tolerant representative/spokes-persons
from each of their separate but consensus-based communities;
& where-after these cooler-headed Representatives
might more reasonably be expected to come together
to actually form a "Consensus"
around the various issues that might arise
before that superior but cooler-headed decision-making-body."

Further Explanation:

Through a process such as this,
by insisting on "Consensus" from with-in
each of the separate belief-system module/communities,
& by requiring that each of these communities to "Elect"
their own cooler-headed but consensus-based spokes-persons;
here-by the un-reasonable & hotter-headed elements
will naturally be purged from the consensus-building process.   
 
Yes; i think that looks pretty good.

(I used wording from an earlier post from James G
to build my focus here.
Thanks James.)

Comments?
Constructive Criticism?
 
Charles Stewart.

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