Mr. Surya asked a question “You have said that in the Gita, the Lord said that awareness is born daily and perishes daily. But how come some people are pointing out that in the same Gita it is told that the soul is eternal?”

 

Swami replied: There are two theories about the soul. In one theory the soul is eternal. This is correct because if you take the soul (awareness) as inert energy in its basic form, energy is eternal. The eternality of the soul is proved in deep sleep since life continues due to the existence of inert energy as the heat in the human body. Due to this inert energy alone, all the systems in the human body are functioning and the life is maintained in the body.

 

 Deep sleep indicates the co-functioning of two systems which are food (Annamaya Kosha) as body and respiration (Pranamaya Kosha) to produce inert energy by the oxidation of food. In the same deep sleep, the awareness has perished. Even the last trace of awareness, which is self awareness (awareness of awareness itself) as seen in meditation, disappears in deep sleep. Therefore, you have to agree that the awareness is transformed into its basic content which is inert energy. In other words you can say that the awareness has disappeared or is destroyed. When the golden ornament is converted into a lump of gold, you can say that the ornament is destroyed. When you awake, the awareness is reborn. This is our experience and cannot be disputed.

 

If you view the soul as inert energy, it is eternal as evident from deep sleep. If you view the soul as awareness, it is born daily and dies daily. Both these are two angles of view about the soul. It is like the dualistic nature of an electron which is a particle as well as a wave. The electron exhibits the properties of both in different contexts but not in the same context. Similarly, the soul exhibits both the properties in different contexts. Both cannot co-exist in the same context because both contradict each other. The Lord mentioned both the theories of the soul in the Gita and it is very important to note that the Lord did not condemn any theory. The two words used in this context which are ‘Atha’ and ‘Cha’ mean that both are equally valid theories in their own contexts (Athachainam…—Gita).

 

Tags: God, dattaswami, jesus

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For those who don't know, Khem is on a constant quest to drive traffic to his personal web site were he describes himself as as " THE REVELATOR " - or one who reveals original truth - like Jesus did (I guess) . . . or something like that. 

Thanks for what you have provided. Here's what I hear that you reveal to those who are looking for external revelation:

" . . . it is the Body that wears the Soul as a garment. "

Not sure I agree with you but I do appreciate the effort you make to inform us of your revelations. Thanks.

 - john



Khem said:

swami, if you ever awaken from your deep sleep you might cease making such nonsensical statements as "the soul is inert energy".

When you see a pot, the light rays falling on the pot create an impression of the pot on the retina of your eye.  The neuron cells in the nervous system transport this image to the brain.  Here the pot, the light rays, the image, the brain, the nervous cells, the transportation of the image to the brain and the chemicals in the brain are entirely inert items.  Now tell me which part of this entire process is called awareness?  Awareness is only a specific inert work.

 

 On careful analysis there is nothing, which is not inert.  All this entire process is taking place under systematic control of God.  There is little freedom in selecting the object for seeing.  But once the object is selected the entire process is under a specific set up and has no freedom or variation.  Awareness is only a specific name of a specific inert process.  Hence the entire human being is inert and is controlled by God completely.  Even the little limited freedom of the human being is due to sanction of God only.  Hence, the human beings are completely controlled by God and this is mentioned in Veda (Aatmeswaram).   The Atman or Self is inert because God is the controller of the self of any human being.  This Awareness or Self or Atman is imaginable inert item, which is a specific form of inert energy only.  Thus, the self is imaginable item and is totally different from the unimaginable God who is its controller. 

 

http://khemtherevelator.blogspot.ca/2009/07/khem-contra-conventiona...



Kernel John said:

For those who don't know, Khem is on a constant quest to drive traffic to his personal web site were he describes himself as as " THE REVELATOR " - or one who reveals original truth - like Jesus did (I guess) . . . or something like that. 

Thanks for what you have provided. Here's what I hear that you reveal to those who are looking for external revelation:

" . . . it is the Body that wears the Soul as a garment. "

Not sure I agree with you but I do appreciate the effort you make to inform us of your revelations. Thanks.

 - john

Soul is pure awareness, which is a special work form of energy produced by the oxidation of food. Its generation requires the function of several biological systems also like lungs, stomach, nervous system etc.

 

When any one of these fail, the energy is not produced and awareness in general disappears as in the deep sleep in which the nervous system takes rest. But the subtle body, which is a bundle of strong feelings (Samskaras), which are the waves of awareness, is not destroyed and it leaves the body for final enquiry.

 

The enquiry is conducted by God based on these Samskaras only and not mere pure awareness, which is common in every soul. If you mean the subtle body for the soul, it is not destroyed. Even in the subtle body, pure awareness exists like gold in the jewels.

 

And if the person steals the pot , or breaks the pot, or gives the  pot to another.

While all these actions are within the mind of the person does the pot not move? Does the pot not become the possession of the person until he gives the pot to another?

While all this takes place within one persons mind, does not the other person who recieves the pot also have the pot within his own mind.

Now the two people both have the pot within their minds, but in one persons mind the pot is in their posession while in the other persons mind the pot is in the other persons posession, even though both people have the pot in their minds, the pot itself cannot be in two places at the same time. The soup in the pot can only nourish the physical body of the one who has the physical posession of it.
 
dattaswami said:



Khem said:

swami, if you ever awaken from your deep sleep you might cease making such nonsensical statements as "the soul is inert energy".

When you see a pot, the light rays falling on the pot create an impression of the pot on the retina of your eye.  The neuron cells in the nervous system transport this image to the brain.  Here the pot, the light rays, the image, the brain, the nervous cells, the transportation of the image to the brain and the chemicals in the brain are entirely inert items.  Now tell me which part of this entire process is called awareness?  Awareness is only a specific inert work.

 

 On careful analysis there is nothing, which is not inert.  All this entire process is taking place under systematic control of God.  There is little freedom in selecting the object for seeing.  But once the object is selected the entire process is under a specific set up and has no freedom or variation.  Awareness is only a specific name of a specific inert process.  Hence the entire human being is inert and is controlled by God completely.  Even the little limited freedom of the human being is due to sanction of God only.  Hence, the human beings are completely controlled by God and this is mentioned in Veda (Aatmeswaram).   The Atman or Self is inert because God is the controller of the self of any human being.  This Awareness or Self or Atman is imaginable inert item, which is a specific form of inert energy only.  Thus, the self is imaginable item and is totally different from the unimaginable God who is its controller. 

 

http://khemtherevelator.blogspot.ca/2009/07/khem-contra-conventiona...

Not always final enquiry it seems as many are given the choice to return to finish  their life... or so they say.


 
dattaswami said:



Kernel John said:

For those who don't know, Khem is on a constant quest to drive traffic to his personal web site were he describes himself as as " THE REVELATOR " - or one who reveals original truth - like Jesus did (I guess) . . . or something like that. 

Thanks for what you have provided. Here's what I hear that you reveal to those who are looking for external revelation:

" . . . it is the Body that wears the Soul as a garment. "

Not sure I agree with you but I do appreciate the effort you make to inform us of your revelations. Thanks.

 - john

Soul is pure awareness, which is a special work form of energy produced by the oxidation of food. Its generation requires the function of several biological systems also like lungs, stomach, nervous system etc.

 

When any one of these fail, the energy is not produced and awareness in general disappears as in the deep sleep in which the nervous system takes rest. But the subtle body, which is a bundle of strong feelings (Samskaras), which are the waves of awareness, is not destroyed and it leaves the body for final enquiry.

 

The enquiry is conducted by God based on these Samskaras only and not mere pure awareness, which is common in every soul. If you mean the subtle body for the soul, it is not destroyed. Even in the subtle body, pure awareness exists like gold in the jewels.

 



James Germiquet said:

Not always final enquiry it seems as many are given the choice to return to finish  their life... or so they say.

========================

The Lord is the Master of this world, your family, your body and your Self. You are the pure awareness (causal body) if you are a scholar and you are the waves of the awareness (qualities) or the subtle body if you are ignorant. In any case you are just a part of your composite body, which consists of all the three bodies. Thus you are in your body. Your body is in your family and your family is in this world. The Lord being the Master of this world, He is the Master of your self, your body and your family. You cannot control yourself or your body or your family or anybody in this universe. Indra became shocked like an inert stone when he was stared at by Lord Shiva. In that state his pure awareness was like an inert stone and he had no feeling at all.

 

 

What does this mean? The Lord controlled the causal body and the subtle body of even Indra [king of gods and angels]. After all, what are you before Indra? Certainly you (causal body or subtle body or both) are controlled by the Lord. The hand and the total gross body of Indra became stand still by the sight of Lord Shiva. This happened when Indra tried to hit Lord Shiva who was in the disguise of Avadhuta. This means that every part of the gross body is also under the control of the Lord.

The Pandavas were great heroes. But they could not protect their wife when she was unclothed by force in a full courtroom. This means you cannot protect anybody in your family. The parents of Markandeya could not protect him from death. In both these cases only the Lord protected the devotees. Duryodhana could not control his grandfather Bhishma and his friend Karna. Bhishma gave the secret of his death to the Pandavas, which was against the will of Duryodhana.

Dear dattaswami,

More recent thinking suggests the soul not inert energy.   The soul is a discrete energy form that is eternal and indivisible. Because it is discrete, each soul is unique.

People who experience brain death - no electronically measurable brain activity - for extended periods, when medically resuscitated, return to a previous level of consciousness.  In other words the human brain can be unplugged for 10 or 20 minutes and then "instantly" return to previous levels of awareness.  If I accidentally unplug my computer for a millisecond, it must be re-initialized before it will work. 

Science has begun to explore human consciousness (the soul) as capable of functioning independent of the human body as seen in this February 2012 news article  

Click Here.

 

dattaswami

You do not seem to entertain the belief module of "free will",

 if you are saying " This means that every part of the gross body is also under the control of the Lord."

 

 dattaswami said:



James Germiquet said:

Not always final enquiry it seems as many are given the choice to return to finish  their life... or so they say.

========================

The Lord is the Master of this world, your family, your body and your Self. You are the pure awareness (causal body) if you are a scholar and you are the waves of the awareness (qualities) or the subtle body if you are ignorant. In any case you are just a part of your composite body, which consists of all the three bodies. Thus you are in your body. Your body is in your family and your family is in this world. The Lord being the Master of this world, He is the Master of your self, your body and your family. You cannot control yourself or your body or your family or anybody in this universe. Indra became shocked like an inert stone when he was stared at by Lord Shiva. In that state his pure awareness was like an inert stone and he had no feeling at all.

 

 

What does this mean? The Lord controlled the causal body and the subtle body of even Indra [king of gods and angels]. After all, what are you before Indra? Certainly you (causal body or subtle body or both) are controlled by the Lord. The hand and the total gross body of Indra became stand still by the sight of Lord Shiva. This happened when Indra tried to hit Lord Shiva who was in the disguise of Avadhuta. This means that every part of the gross body is also under the control of the Lord.

The Pandavas were great heroes. But they could not protect their wife when she was unclothed by force in a full courtroom. This means you cannot protect anybody in your family. The parents of Markandeya could not protect him from death. In both these cases only the Lord protected the devotees. Duryodhana could not control his grandfather Bhishma and his friend Karna. Bhishma gave the secret of his death to the Pandavas, which was against the will of Duryodhana.

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes.

But the cat is watching the rat and catches it again whenever the rat is out of the limits of the supervision. Similarly the Lord called “Kaala” (death) catches a human being and bites. The bite is the illness of the human being. The repeated diseases are the repeated bites of the ‘Kaala” or the Lord. During the bite the rat looses completely its independence. Similarly any human being, which is attacked by the disease becomes a patient and looses its independence completely. The cat plays with the rat for sometime like this and finally swallowes the rat. Similarly, the human being is swallowed by the Lord at the end. The whole creation itself is like a rat for the cat like Lord, which is told in Brahmasutra “Atta Charaachara Grahanaat”. Thus the short span of independence of human beings under the supervision of the overall controlling Lord, creates the full game and entertainment for the Lord. The entertainment is the basic reason of the creation by the Lord as said in Veda (Ekaaki Na Ramate) and as said in Brahmasutra (Lokavattu). Within the limits of the supervision of the cat, the rat will receive the result of the direction in which it runs. In one direction there may be fire and the rat may receive the heat. In another direction there may be cold water and the rat will receive the coolness in that direction.

The rat is independent to receive the result of the direction and has full independence to go in any direction. The final death of the rat shows that the rat is under the control of the cat during its choice of direction also, which is not interfered by the cat. Similarly the human life is with full of independence but the final end proves that the independence is under the control of the Lord. Yet, since there was no interference of the Lord during the human life, the human being receives the results according to its actions. Thus the “whole game is perfectly justified in any angle”.

 



James Germiquet said:

 

dattaswami

You do not seem to entertain the belief module of "free will",

 if you are saying " This means that every part of the gross body is also under the control of the Lord."

 

Okay

So if my perception is that God has created us for companionship, One must have freedom from the Master or the Master is just talking to himself, or talking to sock puppets on his hands. So we must be unique individuals to "entertain" the Master. At the same time we must share his interests, his characteristics or we are not going to be compatible companions. So we reflect the Master but we are not the Master.

The Master teaches us His character as the parent teaches his children his character, the Master is the perfect parent and does not teach His children any flawed character as the human parent does. When we become adults we are perfect companions for our Master.
 
dattaswami said:

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes.

 

The total surrender of your self is possible if you know that you are a tiny part of His movable property.  A goat is a part of the movable property of the butcher.  Every drop of the blood and every bit of the flesh is the property of the butcher only.  The butcher is going to enjoy the entire flesh and blood of the goat and therefore there is no individuality for the goat. 

Similarly, every atom of your gross body and every wave of the energy in your gross body belong to the God. All your qualities (subtle body) and your entire pure awareness (soul or causal body) belong to God only.  Hence, total surrender of your self is the complete justice (Tameva Sharanam Gachcha….Gita).  To signify this concept, the Lord is called as Pashupati or the owner of the souls, which are like the animals.



James Germiquet said:

Okay

So if my perception is that God has created us for companionship, One must have freedom from the Master or the Master is just talking to himself, or talking to sock puppets on his hands. So we must be unique individuals to "entertain" the Master. At the same time we must share his interests, his characteristics or we are not going to be compatible companions. So we reflect the Master but we are not the Master.

The Master teaches us His character as the parent teaches his children his character, the Master is the perfect parent and does not teach His children any flawed character as the human parent does. When we become adults we are perfect companions for our Master.
 
dattaswami said:

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes.

 

God is all.

So of course anything that exists is a part of God and belongs to Him.

And yet we find ourselves at times seperate from God, even  if it is just the thought or perception of being seperate from God. That thought of seperation is who we are because it is not of God, because God knows we are not seperate from Him, and yet that seperation of thought is.
 
dattaswami said:

The total surrender of your self is possible if you know that you are a tiny part of His movable property.  A goat is a part of the movable property of the butcher.  Every drop of the blood and every bit of the flesh is the property of the butcher only.  The butcher is going to enjoy the entire flesh and blood of the goat and therefore there is no individuality for the goat. 

Similarly, every atom of your gross body and every wave of the energy in your gross body belong to the God. All your qualities (subtle body) and your entire pure awareness (soul or causal body) belong to God only.  Hence, total surrender of your self is the complete justice (Tameva Sharanam Gachcha….Gita).  To signify this concept, the Lord is called as Pashupati or the owner of the souls, which are like the animals.



James Germiquet said:

Okay

So if my perception is that God has created us for companionship, One must have freedom from the Master or the Master is just talking to himself, or talking to sock puppets on his hands. So we must be unique individuals to "entertain" the Master. At the same time we must share his interests, his characteristics or we are not going to be compatible companions. So we reflect the Master but we are not the Master.

The Master teaches us His character as the parent teaches his children his character, the Master is the perfect parent and does not teach His children any flawed character as the human parent does. When we become adults we are perfect companions for our Master.
 
dattaswami said:

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes.

 

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