Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 8, 2012 at 10:56am

James, is it right for one to be harder on another person than that other person is on himself?

I believe you are someone who has something to say but perhaps needs some help getting it out.  You have been referring to the Spirit of Truth and Righteousness (SOTR) now for the past year or more yet seem unwilling to illuminate us on what you mean by this. You say you are here to compare your socio-spiritual ideas and beliefs with those of others.  You know of course there are others here who would like also to compare their ideas and beliefs with yours - do you not?  Do do this these individuals require that you provide at least an elementary description or definition of what you mean by SOTR.  Don't be afraid.  I have yet to see someone here present a relatively coherent and well reasoned description get chastised, ridiculed or crucified. . . actually no . . .  I take that back . . . b-b-b-but that doesn't stop me and others from endeavouring to lift the blanket of ignorance.  If you are truly here to compare your spiritual ideas with those of others, why not more fully expose your understandings so others, can compare and provide feedback and responses to you?  Would this not enable you to increase your comparisons even further?  Take a leap of faith, James, and share what you mean by SOTR.  Or, at least tell us what's preventing you from doing this. 

Thanks.
 - john

Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 8, 2012 at 11:56am

 

Kernel what is it you cannot understand about a spirit of Truth and Righteousness.. What is it you cannot understand about Right Thinking and Right Doing.

If we make think and act only out of Truth and Righteousness If we make that SPIRIT our "god" then we are not under such laws as thou shalt not kill, because we would not kill anyway so the law is irrelevant  to us.

God is NOT an "entity" that possesses attributes of SOTR God is SOTR  itself.

Of course each individual does not possess full knowledge of TR but only a glimpse of it from our own personal experiences... and on top of that, we foten do not act out of the Spirit of that glimpse of it we may have.

But there is an ABSOLUTE TR  and the more we are willing to accept it when we do recognize it the closer we become to being a part of and conduit of that Truth and Righteousness....

... and I have no idea why people find ANY confusion in what I have just stated above, because it all seems so clear to me.

Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 8, 2012 at 12:06pm

Perhaps what is preventing any of us in "sharing" understanding is because many of us are UNWILLING to even consider what the other person is saying. How hard is it to understand what a "spirit of truth and righteousness is", simply being willing to try and "understand" the TRUTH of other peoples ideas, instead of immediately trying to strike dowm or dismiss any idea which seems contrary to our own.

That is why I said I try to LEARN from others and then incorporate their idea of truth with my own so that both ideas may be true at the same time... not so that my idea of truth can take precedence over the other persons.

That is why I HATE debates. Because debates suggest that one idea win the debate... DISCUSSIONS can lead to compromise and understanding and amalgamation of ideas into a BETTER understanding a more COMPLETE understanding all around.

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 8, 2012 at 3:54pm

OK, Let's see if I'm beginning to understand what you're trying to saying.

   1. God is Truth and Righteousness. Right?

   2. Truth, in this context, is absolute (perfect and total) Knowledge and Righteousness as
       perfect thoughts, words and action.  Right?

Is that reasonable?

Could we say, truth relates to something one knows and righteousness relates to something one does?

James, my question to you is, "How does one receive this "Spirit" called Truth and Righteousness or GOD in such a way that their thoughts, words and action are in perfect alignment with God?

For example, I see some people who have received god into their life in the FORM of Jesus who appear to have been transformed and others who appear to have not.  Jeff H was a great example of someone who underwent transformation (stopped drinking) and attributes this to Lord Jesus.  Another member here, Alexander, you might remember him, also underwent a transformation (stopped drinking) but did not attribute this to Jesus.  Some people claim fasting is a path to truth, others praying, others meditation while others believe abandoning family and living an ascetic live is the way.

Most would agree that Enlightenment means not only knowing the way but being the way every moment of every day (from every now to every now).  But how do we get there.  How do we not only get to know truth and righteousness but how do we embody it?

Defining or prescribing the path to SOTR is very much a part of defining it.  For example, when one accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, some maintain this means to become part of the body of Christ or to embody Christ. 

Anyway, look forward to receiving your response.

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 8, 2012 at 3:59pm

How hard is it to understand Spirit of Truth and Righteousness?  The real question is for people to come to a common understanding of what it is.  If this was an easy task, as you seem to suggest, would we not have peace on earth.

James, it's not about intellectually understanding The Spirit of Truth and Righteousness.  The test is the degree to which it is embodies within the individual.  That's my point. . . . and then . . . how does one learn to embody it.  That's kinda where I'm going with this discussion.

Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 8, 2012 at 5:19pm

Truth is the spirit ...Righteousness is the expression of the spirit...

Absolute Truth is Go and no human has absolute truth. Same with righteousness.

The label has nothing to do with the spirit.

We know the truth ..the way to get to it is to strip off the lies we cover the truth with

who is christ? god ? holy spirit ? all are the SOTR.

Jesus taught we are not judged by God we are not judged by Jesus. We are judged by the word/truth on the day we no longer hide from it or avoid it. We judge ourselves once we face the truth so there can be no denying our own judgement.

Permalink Reply by James Germiquet on March 8, 2012 at 5:26pm

One must overcome the fear that cause one to avoid the truth or cover it with lies

Again there is no sin, there is only right sin is simply  not doing what is right. Why do we not do right? Because we are afraid of the consequences. If I tell the truth that I stole the money because I was afraid I would be kicked out of my house for not paying rent or I would starve because I had no food who would care,they would punish me but if I do right, I might die. So i do not do right because of my fear. Or if my insecurity causes me to love security(money) more than doing right.. I will not do right.

Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on March 8, 2012 at 7:34pm

If we make think and act only out of Truth and Righteousness If we make that SPIRIT our "god" then we are not under such laws as thou shalt not kill, because we would not kill anyway so the law is irrelevant  to us.

The " "spirit" you  keep mentioning must be your understanding of the Holy Spirit...(there are lots of spirits James roaming around this planet and most  of them have noting to do with the Holy Spirit t of Jesus.  There are lying spirits plaguing mankind for aeons and more aeons..so the HOPLY Spirit (AND THE SEVEN SPIRITS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT MOST AUGUST AND MOST HOLY SPIRIT manifest in seven distinct ways...see seven spirits in the New Testament

(I will elaborate later)

Now James I have asked you several times if you have been "baptized" in the Holy Spirit as defined at Pentecost, (reread the book of Acts James to zero in on that awesome experience that "ignited" each and every one of the disciples and the women all 120 persons and "they all spoke in tongues,  (and has been deliberately and ignorantly ignored by what we call Christianity until fairly recently with what is being called"The Charismatic renewal.

(evidence of the "baptism of the Holy Spirit is that "they ALL spoke in tongues...have e you had that experience?)

There are many more "e3xperiences freely given by the Lord but you must ask Him.

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 8, 2012 at 7:42pm

The vagaries are definitely falling away.

So GOD is the Spirit and the spirit is Truth.  OK.  I think I'm getting what you're saying.

You paint Spirit as a place or state to "get to" and that somehow we have covered the truth with lies.  
You go on to say that to get to the truth we must strip away these lies.

James, briefly, how or why did we come to cover truth with lies?  Was the Truth not evident to us or was it once known and then forgotten? 

But more importantly, what must we all do to uncover the The Truth? 

This kind of dialogue need not be difficult.  Does it?

Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on March 8, 2012 at 7:52pm

James says making stuff up on the fly to try and answer Kernals genuine question...Jesus taught we are not judged by God we are not judged by Jesus. We are judged by the word/truth on the day we no longer hide from it or avoid it. We judge ourselves once we face the truth so there can be no denying our own judgement.

Jesus and the Words of God says...For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).  

“For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God” (1 Peter 4:17

“I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds”  (Revelation 20:12). 

In the same chapter where Peter said that it was time for judgment to begin with the household of God and if it begins first with us what will happen to the others, he said something else about judgment.  He spoke of those who malign us and said, “but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (1 Peter 4:5)  

"everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die." (John 11:26)

He then told Abraham, “And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse.  And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." (Genesis 12:3)    

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24) 

We also heard Peter say, “For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God” (1 Peter 4:17).  

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29)  

“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”   (1 Thessalonians 5:23)  

just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." (Romans 4:6-8)

James spend more time with the Words of God

Permalink Reply by Kernel John on March 8, 2012 at 7:52pm

You say to reveal and know truth, we must loose our fear of it but that we do not do this because we are afraid of the consequences of doing right-action.  Not note that after doing wrong people are unwilling to admit to it for fear of the consequences.

It sounds like you are building a strong case for the human invention of religious codes of behavior that are reinforced with the belief that even if one does not own up now they will reap the negative consequences in this life or the next.

To jump ahead, without the frameworks provided by religion (which we both have real reservations about), what tools would be used to regulate communal behavior?  More external surveillance or a different kind of internal surveillance?

Permalink Reply by Robert DeFord on March 8, 2012 at 8:02pm

Kernal John,,just tilt that Marlboro man chin of yours slightly towards your chest and say "Jesus please forgive me of All my transgressions and imperfections and come into my heart and take over my life.  Please give me the desire to read your word so that I can better understand you."

Amen

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