Comment by Kernel John on May 24, 2012 at 7:47am

Hi Luis,

Some interesting thoughts.  Let me share some perspectives on what you have written.

"The problem arises because humans are finite and imperfect."

Agreed.

"Actually, infinite is a concept that humans have invented"

Science tells us matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed.  I think infinity existed before we recognized it as such.  Did we also invent the concept of "sky" or "beach" or are these simply descriptive terms to identify that which already exists.

" I think God existence or not, we could not define it, and any attempt would be wrong or at least not universal."

Why? True, it is not possible for a lake to understand the ocean - but that does not mean it is not connected by a river or stream.  Defining God is an intellectual pursuit. Knowing or "Remembering" God, as some would put it is another endeavour entirely.  Perhaps it's about developing a relationship rather than a definition.

Luis, I think our relationship with God can help us answer some of the questions you pose.

"Who created me?"

"Am I eternal?"

"Am I good or bad?"

"Am I really infinite?"

The framework I function within answers or responds to your queries as follows.

I am a Soul. I am not physical, I am a metaphysical point of conscient energy.  I am eternal - never created and never destroyed.  My home is not this physical world or time/space energy/matter.  I am pulled into this physical domain to experience and express.  I enter this physical drama of sound and motion in a state of utmost purity.  Over time, however, I engage in thoughts, words and actions that bring negative consequences with them.  My state of being descends over time.

Luis, to better understand the concept of self and God, most find it difficult or impossible to work through the idea of infinite.  The human mind does not do well in comprehending this concept.  Try working with the idea of infinitesimal.  Understand God as being in infinitesimal point that does not come into matter to experience and express.  He is the "perfect" one.  Here, "perfect" means changeless.  God dwells beyond time and space.  The essence of time is movement through space.  God is beyond this movement.  Beyond the speed of light.  He is pure energy. . . pure consciousness.

What do you think?

Comment by Luis Javier López Arredondo on May 29, 2012 at 5:39pm

Thank you for your thoughts.

As far as I conceive, I see the sky and the beach. Concrete concept are easy to define.

Abstract concept such as infinite, God, love... This kind of concepts are purely created by human beings to give a logic to our existence.

I respect your points of view. I consider them very interesting and I will think deeper later on them. What I see is that those answers are the ones that humans could respond following their faith about what God is, following their beliefs that humans ourselves created of what God is.

In your answers... 'I am a Soul' What is a soul? 'Eternal' How do I know? So on.

Really thinking from the point of view of God, even God just can believe he is eternal. So, finally, he would wonder who created him.

Believers have blind faith in sacred texts. Texts written by others human beings who said they were blessed. Were they?

Defining in God is a way to stop the infinite loop of creation, for humans.

Comment by Kernel John on May 30, 2012 at 7:29am

You are not alone in your premise that humans endeavour to define the inconceivable abstract concept of God by delimiting it.  I'm sure you might agree this is a limited approach. You may also be very correct that we attempt to define abstract or subtle concepts such as God, in an attempt to stop the infinite loop or cycle of creation, sustenance and destruction as expressed through the ancient likenesses of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. 

Personally, I think there is a more contemporary discussion to be waged for those who are up to it.

Yes, we (you and I) delimit the inconceivable in order to better conceive or disbelieve it.  Nothing wrong with that - is there?

Let's change the paradigm from delimiting unimaginable God to one of consciousness.  Let's assume that God radiates consciousness like the sun radiates light.  As previously described (click for references here or here ), God can be conceived as an infinitesimal point of metaphysical energy.  This cosmic point radiates waves of conscient energy.  It is this non-local wave of conscient energy that can be communed with.  "I" too am essentially a metaphysical point of conscient energy that, unlike God, comes into material existence to "consciously" experience and express.

Luis, I respect your points of view but in some ways find them antiquated and somewhat limited.  Please do not be offended - for I say this at the risk of being wrong.

Quantum Mechanics has rocked the scientific community for the past 100 years and yet, its implications have hardly permeated the thinking of lay people like you and me.  I am certainly no expert when it comes to Quantum Physics but I do understand some of the underpinnings that suggest that conscious waves of probability are at the fundamental core of reality (or IsReality - as my good friend Khem likes to refer to it).  As a human-being, I exist as a wave of probability that has collapsed into this physical form that I call "my body".  When this physical form becomes lifeless, "I", the metaphysical soul, express as a wave of possibility until another assemblage of physical particles can be aligned with this wave of probability (subtle body). 

We (me & you) cannot really think from the point of view of God.  "I" exist as a subjective reality.  You do too.  Unless we are both aligned to receive God's radiance, how can we objectively align with each other - or develop a relationship with the supreme.

Shift the assumptions (paradigm) and the discussion takes on New Life.

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