Nested comments were ok but not great...or even that good. They had the really restrictive habit that once enough replies were made, no one could reply any further. That's just confusing and silly. If Ning fixes that, we could go back. But for now the most easily understandable format is the "flat" method.
Kernel you said "James, you wonder how much people really love you. You sometimes do this by being obnoxious and testing limits. In this case, you seem to be testing how tolerant people really are around here and, in the process, alienating yourself from some pretty tolerant people - IMHO. Try listening a little harder and speaking a little less frequently for awhile. Its quality not quantity of participation that counts. Love ya man."
As I said to Sid. if YOU "FEEL" , I am being obnoxious, take responsibility for your feelings and ask yourself why YOU choose to bring sorrow by insulting me in calling me obnoxious. Yeah yeah, I know, you never bring sorrow, the other person always takes it... Not sure how one can take a sorrow unless it is brought to him.. but never mind ..
In my opinion people who think they are tolerant perhaps need to take stock of their own personality when they believe a person is alienating themselves from them. I suggest they are merely exhibiting the fact that they are not really as tolerant aas they claim to be.
First you call me obnoxious then you say you love me ???? You certainly have a strange way of expressing love Kernel I sure would not want to be married to you.
Kernel I have pointed out many many many that I am as guilty as anyone here for insulting others.
What I question, is whether you have ever even considered that just maybe you are also guilty of the sins you constantly accuse others of?
The lack of evidence of this makes me question whether you do any self soul searching of yourself. Whether you are able to see yourself as others here may see you.
I really wasn't trying to be. It just seems to me that I have always held the belief that people " assemble their own constellations of beliefs without having to go through a priestly class or through ritual unless they wish to engage in forms of collective worship which, in this web-based world, may no longer be a requirement for personal spiritual development and growth."
And I personally have gone through this myself. I used to go to church and prayer meetings and join in collective worship and then I stopped, now my wife and I are discussing going back to that form of collective worship and as I said I am just looking for the right group or collection of people to worship with.
Huy! Thanks for the welcome. I will enjoy jumping in and learning all about those here 'with eyes to see and ears to hear'...i'm a simple gal...a rebel to most, a wolf and a raven learning now from the loon! i follow my own Spirit without hesitation, practice 'spiritual hygeine' living as the master we all are....a keeper of the flame...as are we all....i stand in the infinite now....what else is there of importance? activism is my middle name, nothing is who i aspire to be....me, with nothing added....i've got some perusing to do here....i am honored to be involved....thank you...adieu, new friend. Yael
So, we see that John the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah, but not actually Elijah reincarnated. There is, however, a little more information that might prove interesting. Elijah wore, most probably, a camel's hair girdle. "And they answered him, "He was a hairy man with a leather girdle bound about his loins." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite," (2 Kings 1:8). According to the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, in reference to 2 Kings 1:8, Elijah . . .
"he wore a rough garment, either made of camels’ hair, as that of John Baptist, or of a skin, dressed with the hair on. Sir J. Chardin informs us, in a MS. note on this place, cited by Mr. Harmer, that the eastern dervishes and fakeers are clothed just as Elijah was, with a hairy garment, girded with a leathern girdle."
Concerning John the Baptist, it says in Matthew 3:4, "Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair, and a leather belt about his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey." It may be that Zecharias, who had access to the temple and things in the temple, may have acquired Elijah's camel hair garment and given it to John the Baptist to wear. This is speculation, but it is an interesting possibility.
The teaching of reincarnation is against the Old Testament; therefore, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. So, what did Jesus mean when He said that John the Baptist was Elijah? We see in Malachi 4:5 this prophecy, "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord." Jesus is referring to the prophecy concerning Elijah. We see that the coming of Elijah was in the spirit of Elijah, which is so stated in Luke 1:13-17. The context is when Zecharias, John's father-to-be, was performing his priestly duties in the temple (Luke 1:8ff). An angel of the Lord appeared to Zacharias and said,
"Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14"And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17"And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord," (Luke 1:13-17).
Kernel, the following comment should answer you question in sufficient detail (this will be in 2-4 parts)
Yes, he was Elijah (Matthew 11:13-14) - "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14"And if you care to accept it, he himself is Elijah, who was to come."
No, he was not Elijah (John 1:19-21) - "And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he *said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
The only problem is that most people are skeptics. But that's their problem. You and I are believers. Right?
No keranl everybody is a believer..some believe that the stock market can make them a winner..some believe that drugs enables them to believe that life has some meaning..some believe whatever their Pastor or priest tells them is true..some even believe that what their guru tells them is true and quite believable..some believe there is no God and no afterlife..some believe that once born again they are saved..some say No No No you must not only be born again but you mist be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tonges..then others believe they can achieve liberation and an awakening by focussing ALL their attention on the pineal galnd and stand on their heads long enough to fill their skulls with bodily fluids (they may be called water heds), some others believe that they are guaranteed another life if this one does not work out just fine and dandy.. (not sure what fine and dandy means so you can just google that belief), some even believe that looking at the sun guarantees you enlightenment (not me though I teach that looking at the sun and knowing Jesus is the most gold-plated assurance anyone can have..because you actually experience your soul and you actually work at developing it over time...you are the mater builder..you alone are the foreman on the project because nobody..nobody..no one else can do it for you..that even Jesus. I also teach that bible is the only utterly reliable manual of instruction to augment looking at the sun..knowing Jesus..being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, prayer and fasting, all those tools are needed to perfect that soul and dredge it up from the deep deep sleep that hides it from "consciousness” and "reality".
But thanks for finding that video..Have you watched "Zeitgeist" the movie online? It is quite similar but a much more dramatic..Hollywoody type explanation of the similarity to Christian symbology and ancient sun worship..but again trying to denounce the biblical version of sun worship because the bible teaches that Jesus is the SUN and the SON of God and that Jesus literally died and three days later was raised from the dead..thus physically and literally dying not just comologically, astronomically, and Gnostially (probably not a word just yet.but you get the drift..right?. Since Jesus is God incarnate in a human form He reenacted and taught all of the ancint mysteris that are hiden in the bible..sacred geometry (Solomons Templle schemtics), numerology, sacred synbols galore hidden in the hudreds of stories, signs, parables, events, the Ark of the Covenant even teached about a future clean tecxhnology that will “light up the World” with God’s light and Jesus as the lamp..not too far off either.
Kernal says... We have our beliefs. Mine is that I am a soul. Yours seems to be that you are in the process of creating your soul but not alone - in conjunction with God. Did I get that wrong?
Correct!!! You believe in a theory as if it is fact of life..theories are not facts until; proven..that is why I teach proof positive within a perfect systematic process..a daily dosage of the "manna" from heaven mixed with the power of Jesus and His Spirit, “swallowed” into your skull, and all combined with a deep relentless effort to comprehend the bible and its hundreds of ample mysteries to keep anyone busy and inspired forever..er...untril they die, and the hallowed book of records, the Book of Life is opened up and we are all judged and weighed.
My system is bullet proof.
Interesting video..where did you find it..not on you tube apearantly..I do not see their logo and I double clicked on it and it went nowhere.
This website I find difficult to navigate and interact with. TED.com and most others are much more user-friendly. Right now I'm responding to your message, but I do not have it in front of me. I got an email with a link to your message but when that opens I have to click on a small heading to the right about accepting it or not.. Also messages and responses are all the same width. No indentation keeping the subject together.
Well, anyway, back to the topic. In the East people communicate, even now, differently than we do. Who in the US military would ever have used the expression "..the mother of all wars"? That difference must have been even more so thousands of years ago. Now it is a very usual approach to literature to take it appart, examen every way of who said it, who it might be copied from; what was meant; what was the reason for using certain words, etc. etc.. In the old days people just read it and followed it.
We believe that what makes the Bible God's Word is the internal or spirtitual sense. Not the historical accounts of what the Israelites did on this day and what happened next and who traveled where. That is IMHO why many churches totally disregard the Old Testament, unless there is a specific point to make.
The book you now have about the Apocalypse is such an approach and for instance, the churches mentioned in the Apocalypse have an internal or deeper meaning. When all these meanings are put together one gains incredible insight into the book of Revelation. the churches represent people's believe systems: Ephesus-those that love the truth but do not live by it, Smyrna-those who are good people but have a false doctrine (AE 68) and so on. Putting it all together we find that the book of revelation is about people that went before us but also about our spiritual decisions now, today! I think that’s what you saw on that British website.
I might have mentioned it elsewhere, but there is a same approach to Genesis and Exodus. In just a couple of years, Swedenborg wrote 12 books about the internal sense of those books. With a quill pen. Just for fun I measured it and the 12 books take up 15 ½ inches on the shelve. One of the most astonishing facets is that there are no contradictions with anything written about the Apocalypse. Regarding our spiritual growth they make total sense and guide us.
I don’t know if you’ve check it out at all but there is quite a bit of literature on my website. Actually two websites because at one point I switched Internet Provider and later found the old website still existed. But here is the link to the present one,
Much of the 'conversations' here seem just cutting and pasting from other sources. Maybe I should put something here about what Swedenborg says about the spiritual sense of one or two verses. In fact I hope to start putting some of Swedenborg's books in the 'official' or sacred section.
Please do not see me giving links to books as you having to read the whole book first before you respond. Just glance over it, maybe look at a page or at chapter names, if available.
Did anything in my post about the book Apocalypse Revealed seem helpful to you?
The one thing I want to make very clear is that the spiritual sense of the Bible unites all literal discrepancies and contradictions people have so much difficulty with. This is also the dividing 'force' between science and religion. This very much includes, and starts, with the Creation Story. Did you ever read the spiritual side of what that particular story is really about? I'd love to give you a link :)
Come to think of it, maybe we could meet in Timmies somewhere :)
1. I do not know what the Christian form of yoga could be or if it exists. Could be just someone's opinion or evaluation about some activity. I'd probably like to see, as a great activity of Christianity, the effort to love others outside of oneself. No other religion that I know of (and I do not know that many) has had so many missionaries trying to share with others what they regarded as spiritually saving.
2. That would indeed be silly and have no more effect than a tan :)
3. Don't know what that can possibly mean or is based on..
So all in all, these do not seem to me Christian silliness. They do not have a Christian origin or are accepted by 'normal' Christians.
The Kernel and others: Though I have not been writing in this forum for awhile, I have checked in now and then. Meanwhile, I have been writing to the Not-Quite-Science section of the forum at scienceagogo.com: Is this blog still active?
One thread there, on the Philosophy of religion religion ... which I started using my wife's family name, Turner--also my son's name--now has over 2, 777, 000 hits. Feel free to join in.
I see what you mean, Kernel. I apologize. I didn't get the joke and invariably attempted to have a serious conversation about it. Regretfully, I read into things more than perhaps is there. I have spent so much of my time learning about the power of words and the nature of words that when I see sentences in any forum I begin to psycho-ANALyze them. I will work in the future to "keep and open mind" and to "lighten up." ;)
I assure you, Kernel, I'm very lighthearted and easy going. Regretfully the internet is a poor conveyor of emotional responses. When you see me type, just keep in mind that I type like how I think, logically. There is zero emotional inclinations to most of my posts. I will usually demonstrate anger by ignoring a post or typing in caps (to follow Internet Protocol of the Yelling, I suppose). As for sounding familiar, well thank you, but this is the first time I've ever been here. Though Sid and I have known each other for some time. And thank you for the kind welcome.
No, Kernel, my comment is not about me. It's about you. My dogma is your karma. I hold no dogma. Which would imply you have no karma then. I agree my vanity holds no relevance in this statement but I do not agree that vanity does not hold any relevance to the whole. One man's vanity could change the world.
My dogma is your karma? I hold no dogma, so maybe this is why I'm a little confused in your reply. Do you imply that my Word (as if I would be so vain as to think I possessed the power of the LOGOS) would directly influence your life? An interesting idea to say the least. As for my choice of Open Source Religion, well that's a bit interesting, isn't it? Hm, I wonder. I look forward to talking to you soon.
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Thanks. I'm really enjoying it as well.
Nested comments were ok but not great...or even that good. They had the really restrictive habit that once enough replies were made, no one could reply any further. That's just confusing and silly. If Ning fixes that, we could go back. But for now the most easily understandable format is the "flat" method.
Kernel you said "James, you wonder how much people really love you. You sometimes do this by being obnoxious and testing limits. In this case, you seem to be testing how tolerant people really are around here and, in the process, alienating yourself from some pretty tolerant people - IMHO. Try listening a little harder and speaking a little less frequently for awhile. Its quality not quantity of participation that counts. Love ya man."
As I said to Sid. if YOU "FEEL" , I am being obnoxious, take responsibility for your feelings and ask yourself why YOU choose to bring sorrow by insulting me in calling me obnoxious. Yeah yeah, I know, you never bring sorrow, the other person always takes it... Not sure how one can take a sorrow unless it is brought to him.. but never mind ..
In my opinion people who think they are tolerant perhaps need to take stock of their own personality when they believe a person is alienating themselves from them. I suggest they are merely exhibiting the fact that they are not really as tolerant aas they claim to be.
First you call me obnoxious then you say you love me ???? You certainly have a strange way of expressing love Kernel I sure would not want to be married to you.
Kernel I have pointed out many many many that I am as guilty as anyone here for insulting others.
What I question, is whether you have ever even considered that just maybe you are also guilty of the sins you constantly accuse others of?
The lack of evidence of this makes me question whether you do any self soul searching of yourself. Whether you are able to see yourself as others here may see you.
I really wasn't trying to be. It just seems to me that I have always held the belief that people " assemble their own constellations of beliefs without having to go through a priestly class or through ritual unless they wish to engage in forms of collective worship which, in this web-based world, may no longer be a requirement for personal spiritual development and growth."
And I personally have gone through this myself. I used to go to church and prayer meetings and join in collective worship and then I stopped, now my wife and I are discussing going back to that form of collective worship and as I said I am just looking for the right group or collection of people to worship with.
Huy! Thanks for the welcome. I will enjoy jumping in and learning all about those here 'with eyes to see and ears to hear'...i'm a simple gal...a rebel to most, a wolf and a raven learning now from the loon! i follow my own Spirit without hesitation, practice 'spiritual hygeine' living as the master we all are....a keeper of the flame...as are we all....i stand in the infinite now....what else is there of importance? activism is my middle name, nothing is who i aspire to be....me, with nothing added....i've got some perusing to do here....i am honored to be involved....thank you...adieu, new friend. Yael
further continuation...
So, we see that John the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah, but not actually Elijah reincarnated.
There is, however, a little more information that might prove interesting. Elijah wore, most probably, a camel's hair girdle. "And they answered him, "He was a hairy man with a leather girdle bound about his loins." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite," (2 Kings 1:8). According to the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, in reference to 2 Kings 1:8, Elijah . . .
Concerning John the Baptist, it says in Matthew 3:4, "Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair, and a leather belt about his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey." It may be that Zecharias, who had access to the temple and things in the temple, may have acquired Elijah's camel hair garment and given it to John the Baptist to wear. This is speculation, but it is an interesting possibility.
continuation...
The teaching of reincarnation is against the Old Testament; therefore, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. So, what did Jesus mean when He said that John the Baptist was Elijah? We see in Malachi 4:5 this prophecy, "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord." Jesus is referring to the prophecy concerning Elijah. We see that the coming of Elijah was in the spirit of Elijah, which is so stated in Luke 1:13-17. The context is when Zecharias, John's father-to-be, was performing his priestly duties in the temple (Luke 1:8ff). An angel of the Lord appeared to Zacharias and said,
Kernel, the following comment should answer you question in sufficient detail (this will be in 2-4 parts)
No keranl everybody is a believer..some believe that the stock market can make them a winner..some believe that drugs enables them to believe that life has some meaning..some believe whatever their Pastor or priest tells them is true..some even believe that what their guru tells them is true and quite believable..some believe there is no God and no afterlife..some believe that once born again they are saved..some say No No No you must not only be born again but you mist be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tonges..then others believe they can achieve liberation and an awakening by focussing ALL their attention on the pineal galnd and stand on their heads long enough to fill their skulls with bodily fluids (they may be called water heds), some others believe that they are guaranteed another life if this one does not work out just fine and dandy.. (not sure what fine and dandy means so you can just google that belief), some even believe that looking at the sun guarantees you enlightenment (not me though I teach that looking at the sun and knowing Jesus is the most gold-plated assurance anyone can have..because you actually experience your soul and you actually work at developing it over time...you are the mater builder..you alone are the foreman on the project because nobody..nobody..no one else can do it for you..that even Jesus. I also teach that bible is the only utterly reliable manual of instruction to augment looking at the sun..knowing Jesus..being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, prayer and fasting, all those tools are needed to perfect that soul and dredge it up from the deep deep sleep that hides it from "consciousness” and "reality".
But thanks for finding that video..Have you watched "Zeitgeist" the movie online? It is quite similar but a much more dramatic..Hollywoody type explanation of the similarity to Christian symbology and ancient sun worship..but again trying to denounce the biblical version of sun worship because the bible teaches that Jesus is the SUN and the SON of God and that Jesus literally died and three days later was raised from the dead..thus physically and literally dying not just comologically, astronomically, and Gnostially (probably not a word just yet.but you get the drift..right?. Since Jesus is God incarnate in a human form He reenacted and taught all of the ancint mysteris that are hiden in the bible..sacred geometry (Solomons Templle schemtics), numerology, sacred synbols galore hidden in the hudreds of stories, signs, parables, events, the Ark of the Covenant even teached about a future clean tecxhnology that will “light up the World” with God’s light and Jesus as the lamp..not too far off either.
Kernal says... We have our beliefs. Mine is that I am a soul. Yours seems to be that you are in the process of creating your soul but not alone - in conjunction with God. Did I get that wrong?
Correct!!! You believe in a theory as if it is fact of life..theories are not facts until; proven..that is why I teach proof positive within a perfect systematic process..a daily dosage of the "manna" from heaven mixed with the power of Jesus and His Spirit, “swallowed” into your skull, and all combined with a deep relentless effort to comprehend the bible and its hundreds of ample mysteries to keep anyone busy and inspired forever..er...untril they die, and the hallowed book of records, the Book of Life is opened up and we are all judged and weighed.
My system is bullet proof.
Interesting video..where did you find it..not on you tube apearantly..I do not see their logo and I double clicked on it and it went nowhere.
This website I find difficult to navigate and interact with. TED.com and most others are much more user-friendly. Right now I'm responding to your message, but I do not have it in front of me. I got an email with a link to your message but when that opens I have to click on a small heading to the right about accepting it or not.. Also messages and responses are all the same width. No indentation keeping the subject together.
Well, anyway, back to the topic. In the East people communicate, even now, differently than we do. Who in the US military would ever have used the expression "..the mother of all wars"? That difference must have been even more so thousands of years ago. Now it is a very usual approach to literature to take it appart, examen every way of who said it, who it might be copied from; what was meant; what was the reason for using certain words, etc. etc.. In the old days people just read it and followed it.
We believe that what makes the Bible God's Word is the internal or spirtitual sense. Not the historical accounts of what the Israelites did on this day and what happened next and who traveled where. That is IMHO why many churches totally disregard the Old Testament, unless there is a specific point to make.
The book you now have about the Apocalypse is such an approach and for instance, the churches mentioned in the Apocalypse have an internal or deeper meaning. When all these meanings are put together one gains incredible insight into the book of Revelation. the churches represent people's believe systems: Ephesus-those that love the truth but do not live by it, Smyrna-those who are good people but have a false doctrine (AE 68) and so on. Putting it all together we find that the book of revelation is about people that went before us but also about our spiritual decisions now, today! I think that’s what you saw on that British website.
I might have mentioned it elsewhere, but there is a same approach to Genesis and Exodus. In just a couple of years, Swedenborg wrote 12 books about the internal sense of those books. With a quill pen. Just for fun I measured it and the 12 books take up 15 ½ inches on the shelve. One of the most astonishing facets is that there are no contradictions with anything written about the Apocalypse. Regarding our spiritual growth they make total sense and guide us.
I don’t know if you’ve check it out at all but there is quite a bit of literature on my website. Actually two websites because at one point I switched Internet Provider and later found the old website still existed. But here is the link to the present one,
http://sites.google.com/site/liveitupspiritually/
See what you think
Much of the 'conversations' here seem just cutting and pasting from other sources. Maybe I should put something here about what Swedenborg says about the spiritual sense of one or two verses. In fact I hope to start putting some of Swedenborg's books in the 'official' or sacred section.
Please do not see me giving links to books as you having to read the whole book first before you respond. Just glance over it, maybe look at a page or at chapter names, if available.
Did anything in my post about the book Apocalypse Revealed seem helpful to you?
The one thing I want to make very clear is that the spiritual sense of the Bible unites all literal discrepancies and contradictions people have so much difficulty with. This is also the dividing 'force' between science and religion. This very much includes, and starts, with the Creation Story. Did you ever read the spiritual side of what that particular story is really about? I'd love to give you a link :)
Come to think of it, maybe we could meet in Timmies somewhere :)
1. I do not know what the Christian form of yoga could be or if it exists. Could be just someone's opinion or evaluation about some activity. I'd probably like to see, as a great activity of Christianity, the effort to love others outside of oneself. No other religion that I know of (and I do not know that many) has had so many missionaries trying to share with others what they regarded as spiritually saving.
2. That would indeed be silly and have no more effect than a tan :)
3. Don't know what that can possibly mean or is based on..
So all in all, these do not seem to me Christian silliness. They do not have a Christian origin or are accepted by 'normal' Christians.
Just curious what you mean by Christian silliness?
I am not saying there isn't any (in fact there are certain idiocies like a belief in three gods).
How many friends do you know that co-create music at different angles ???
The Kernel and others: Though I have not been writing in this forum for awhile, I have checked in now and then. Meanwhile, I have been writing to the Not-Quite-Science section of the forum at scienceagogo.com: Is this blog still active?
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=40572#Post40572
One thread there, on the Philosophy of religion religion ... which I started using my wife's family name, Turner--also my son's name--now has over 2, 777, 000 hits. Feel free to join in.
It probably did not fall, it was just smart enough to go into hiding and control the rest of the world through its puppet leaders.
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