Comment by The Kernel on January 29, 2012 at 11:11pm

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Comment by Robert DeFord on February 14, 2012 at 5:43am

THE SOMETHING ELSE HE HAS NOTICED IS  FOUND ONLY IN THE PRESENT MOMENT, (THE ETERNAL   NMOW WHERE ETERNITY CAN BE EXPERIENCED), BECAUSE "OBJECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS", (CONTRARY TO "SUBJECTIVE" CONSCIOUSNESS PART OF  THE SOFT  MACHINE PROGRAMMING), IS A DIVINE COMPONENT THE GOD SPOT AND INNER LIGHT FOUND IN  EVERY-MAN AND WOMAN BUT ASLEEP AND IS COVERED UP BY THE WIDE VARIETY OF LIFELONG  PROGRAMMING OF THE MUNDANE CONTAINER OF CONSCIOUSNESS MOSTLY, EXISTENT IN MEMORY OF ALL THE IMPRESSIONS ABSORBED IN THE "PAST",  EARTHLY,  SOFT MACHINE AND  NATURE IYSELF..INCLUDING TRAUMATIC EVENTS THAT WOUND AND SCAR THE PERSON ALSO IN MEMORY BUT USUALLY STORED IN THE "UNCONSCIOUS", OFTEN PROVOKING "DENIAL" IN  THE INDIVIDUAL, THE BLINDNESS AND DEAFNESS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.

CHILDREN ARE RELATIVELY FREE OF THIS9 DENIAL UNTIL  THEY TOO HAVE  BEEN TRAUMATIZED AND THEN "STUFF" THOSE MEMORIES  DEEPLY INTO UNCONSCIOUS MEMORIES.

ONCE BORN  AGAIN THROUGH JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT THE HEALING OF MEMORIES  OF PAST WOUNDS AND PAST IMPERFECTIONS IS STARTED AND THE CLOSER ONE BECOMES TO JESUS THROUGH PRAYER AND SELF REALIZATION AND TRUE SELF  AWAKENING THE HEALINGS CAN  HAPPEN MO0RE DEEPLY.

THAT KIND OF CONSCIOUSNESS..OBJECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS,  GROWS AS WE DEVELOP "AWARENESS" OF "IT".  AS IT GROWS AND AS WE RELATE TO IT...IDENTIFY WITH "IT" WE GRADUALLY BECOME LIBERATED AND WE ARE FREED AND HEALED OF THE "EMOTIONAL" BAGGAGE CARRIED BY EACH PERSON.  TOTAL FREEDOM IS POSSIBLE WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS..OBJECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS, SELF AWAKENING,AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IMPRESSING OUR "NEW" CONSCIENCE, WE CAN GRADUALLY BECOME GOD CONSCIOUS.

ALL THAT HAPPENS IN THE PRESENT

Comment by Robert DeFord on February 14, 2012 at 5:56am

DavidChalmers used the word ZOMBIES Kernal..has he met you?

Comment by Robert DeFord on February 14, 2012 at 6:10am

these two talking heads have not studied Grdjieff or Jesus, Gurdjieff mains teacher

George Ivanovich Gurdjieff (Armenian: Գեորգի Իվանովիչ Գյուրջիև, (, Russian: Гео́ргий Ива́нович Гюрджи́ев, January 13, 1877? – October 29, 1949) was an influential spiritual teacher of the early to middle 20th century who taught that the vast majority of humanity live their entire lives in a state of hypnotic "waking sleep", but that it was possible to transcend to a higher state of consciousness and achieve full human potential. Gurdjieff developed a method for doing so, calling his discipline "The Work"connoting "work on oneself") according to his principles and instructions,. Gurdjieff's method for awakening one's consciousness is different from that of the fakir, monk or yogi, so his discipline is also called (originally) the "Fourth Way". At one point he described his teaching as being "esoteric Christianity".

Gurdjieff claimed that people cannot perceive reality in their current states because they do not possess consciousness but rather live in a state of a hypnotic "waking sleep."

"Man lives his life in sleep, and in sleep he dies."^[18] As a result of this condition, each person perceives things from a completely subjective perspective. Gurdjieff stated that maleficent events such as wars and so on could not possibly take place if people were more awake. He asserted that people in their typical state function as unconscious automatons, but that one can "wake up" and become a different sort of human being altogether.^[19]

Comment by Robert DeFord on February 14, 2012 at 6:33am

The Teaching

Then what precisely was Gurdjieff’s Teaching? Although the question seems to promise clarification, it is spoilt by its very rigour: time deadens authorised versions like hemlock, and Gurdjieff never issued one. ‘I teach,’ he said gnomically, ‘that when it rains, the pavements get wet.’ The vivifying power of his ideas entails the moment, the circumstance, the type and state of the pupil. His one constant demand is Know thyself, to which he adduces a metaphysic, a metapsychology and a metachemistry which absolutely defy précis; a human typology, a phenomenology of consciousness, and a quasi-mathematical scale linking macrocosm and microcosm. This complex apparatus is illuminated by one master-idea: that Man is called to strive for self-perfection, in service to our sacred living Universe.

Can we catch echoes of Pythagoras or Plato, Christ or Milarepa; see certain limited parallels with moderns like Mendeleev, Sheldon, Vernadsky, Watson? It is easy to lose oneself and one’s search in a labyrinth of comparisons, and in the phylogeny of ideas. Gurdjieff himself was not content with words; his Movements and sacred dances were at once a glyph of universal laws and a field for individual search. When, approaching sixty, he turned to writing, his productions were heuristic rather than expository, and their form totally unexpected: first a cosmological epic of a special kind, then an autobiography of a special kind.

Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson is Gurdjieff’s masterpiece and no other book brings us closer to him. Readers who can rise to the double challenge of its profundity and its quite deliberate stylistic difficulty; who can summon again and again the necessary fine attention — will find encoded here all Gurdjieff’s psychological and cosmological ideas, and a fundamental critique.

On a long journey by spaceship, Beelzebub good-humouredly conveys his understanding of ‘All and Everything’ to his grandson Hassein. Through his impartial compassionate eyes we see life on earth as from a great distance, with microscopic clarity. Down millenia and across continents, we see Man deeply asleep, blindly and aimlessly struggling and suffering, torn by war and passion, fouling everything he touches; and yet, through a strange flaw in his nature, clinging ingeniously to the very instruments which wound, the patterns which betray.

A stark picture? Undeniably. And in other hands than Gurdjieff’s it might have been cruelly nihilistic; but Gurdjieff is calling us to life. It is his genius to float an objective hope, like an Ark on these dark waters. He bequeaths us the great figure of Beelzebub, whose presence indicates man as he might be: aware with gratitude of the divine spark within him, and striving by conscious labours towards the fulfilment of his true place in the cosmic scheme.

In his next book Meetings

Comment by James Germiquet on February 14, 2012 at 12:17pm

Hiow comparableis  The Screw Tape Letters, to Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson ?

Comment by Robert DeFord on February 14, 2012 at 6:14pm

James,

Screw-tape letters is a very clever parody..and an accurate appraisal of Satan's devices,,cloaked in humor..but it is mostly a response to what wee may call Modern psychology..that of our thought life.

Gurdjieffs book is a masterpiece of religious history, elements of science, ancient and modern,, elements of esoteric thought and magic, and many hidden encoded concepts and ideas from very ancient sources..some secret sources.

A rough comparison to G's "Tales" is closer to Tolkiien's “Lord of the Ring's where (Tolkien led  c /s Lewis to the Lord incidentally.), they both were members of "The Inklings",  a writers group (mostly deeply involved in “Hidden History”,  that met regularly to critique each other work), In the” Rings trilogy there are many elements of magic usually disguised and easily glossed over as fable”.

Tolkien was a very devout Christian (he also helped edit the Jerusalem bible, even though “Catholic”),  an excellent study bible with copious notes and guides to assist the reader in his efforts to go to "spruce" for verification.  Tolkien was a genius as was Gurdjieff but Gurdjieff choose an extremely complex style of writing that deliberately hid deeply in the text valuable clues to "hidden" knowledge of Esoteric knowledge of “The Lost Teachings of Jesus” .  The original teachings are being safely held for 2,000 years in an Essene monastery near Jerusalem and carefully guarded, in certain monasteries and ashrams..scattered from Tibet and India to Jerusalem where G found the key of keys (the Solar teachings of Jesus to the early church),..see the “Mount of Transfiguration “incident” for clues for that secret),  in his quest that took many years and a few bullet wounds and near death car crashes.

Tolkien was similar in his dedication to "Truth" wherever he could find it (Tolkien is not his real name though..it is a play on words), .;  Tolkien invented words, languages (for elves, goblins, demons,) and en entire history (the long count like the Mayan calendar),  that stretches back thousands of years..Gurdjieff was similar..both used fiction as the vehicle for “Truth”.

TZOLKIEN”,  the name  of the Mayan Calendar system..Tolkien patterned much of his "long count" of history and the Elder race on the Mayan beliefs and calendar system.

Gurdjieffs father was an Armenian story teller (Sufi like) so that is what Gurdjieff  also was a student of the style and he used some of the same methods of hiding "esoteric truths” in his RTTG (Beelzebub's Tales to his grandson), as does the bible which is full of double meanings, puns (Jesus is the Sun and the Son of God)     (Shhhhhhh don’t tell Kernal he is not to be trusted..he would just run to  the franchise and babble).   Also in the bible is the hidden information about our “chakras” and the subtle circulation system we call “meridians..the seven chakras are represented by the seven candles in Moses Tabernacle, Solomon's Temple, and finally in the Book of REvelation..but again James do not pass this kind of information on to Kernal,,he is not to be trusted.

Gurdjieff buries very essential clues, facts, powers, geographical locations of authentic schools,, and other vital information needed to accomplish "The Great Work" and he called that technique and style of writing "burying the dog".  I use that also, especially with Kernal if you look closely beyond my “fol de rol”. they both worked for "Intelligence Services "on occasion".

Comment by James Germiquet on February 15, 2012 at 10:14am

Personally I do not like 'secrets' , many religions seem to revel in them for some reasonl. The buddhists with their 'koans' and Jesus with his parables.

Yet I do not find any 'hidden meanings' in them. I do not see anything at all 'secret' in "The Secret'. Nothing is being hidden, everything is there for people to see if they choose to.

I believe if you have some 'truth' to reveal, just say it and don't play games, such games to  me amount to 'deception' and why would I belive someone who is deceitful?

 

Comment by James Germiquet on February 15, 2012 at 10:23am

experiences.... input output.. a dog bites me I know dogs are bad animals

a dog is playful with another person he knows dogs are good animals.

 

I say dog is bad other person says dog is good, we disagree and argue over it.

 

then there is the calculated responses, flight or fight

do unto others what you know you would want them to do to you. you are a good person

or do unto others before they can do unto you because the are a bad person.

 

we all have different experiences in our lives and we learn different coping mechanisms.

 

millions of different experiences create millions of different subjective consciousnesses.

 

well at least that is my simple short reasoning ,,,, my 30 second answer.

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